And that is grown up politics! Nice one.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
What I am most interested in and concerned about, is, what we would get for our £10.00, so far, we have established we will get a vote and nothing else.
I have repeatedly asked about this vote, without reply. On the one hand, considering the pp is being sold to us on the grounds, that the people of Dover will have their say in running the port. Will this vote give the holder a say in the day to day running of the port? Voting on financial aspects of the port? On future projects? Distribution of profit for Dover (not Deal)? On employment and recruitment decisions? Etc etc? If so then this needs to be explained before any referendum.
Because the alternative is much more simple.
If nothing is presented to the people to vote on, then this vote means nothing at all?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
as i see it gary, we would get the right to vote on who is on the board.
a bit like those letters we use to get from building societies.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary - you cannot have detailed management decisions being made by voting members. Managing must be left to management. As I see it you would get a vote for the Board, I presume a right to see and vote on the accounts annually. The same kind of voting rights that shareholders have. Possibly over Board remuneration as well. Perhaps Peter might have a better idea.
Personally it does not matter to me, I will invest £10 whatever the voting rights are and regardless of what it conveys.
£10 really is a nominal sum that anyone locally can afford and it should not be considered an investment as much as a stake in Dover's future. Most people will spend a lot more than that on a night out in the pub.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Thank you BarryW, that's the kind of answer and in the manner to which people on here, will listen and respond to, hopefully, in the same manner.
Of course I know not all management decisions will come down to voters but if you are saying they will be on par with shareholder rights, and this is confirmed, then that is a big jump from just getting a vote.
It's not the £10.00 amount that is important. It's having a part to play that counts, if your information is correct.
However, I still feel there is much more to consider about the PP, I still believe it is risky and I still think that changing the Charter would be safer. I know what many of you think about that idea but I still believe, if a campaign was mounted with the same enthusiasm from our leaders for changing the Trust rules to benefit Dover more, then that would have been achievable. Unfortunately, at this time, I have to admit that it is now down to two options. If the PP falls through and the Port is sold off, you will blame people like me for not supporting it. I, on the other hand, will blame you for not trying the third option first.
Best of luck, hope I am wrong and PP is a success for the People of Dover.
I am not for selling.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Gary, I think it fair to inform you that in a p/p port, any issue to be voted on would be subordinate to the trust's constitution: many topics would not be voting issues, but only those which the trust's constitution, or regulations, prescribe.
So if you wanted to have a say in changing these regulations, once the trust were established, and, say, propose that some profits go to Deal, you might find that the issue is not up for discussion.
Once again, read the proposed regulations carefully, or contact Charlie Elphicke by email for an official clarification, if you are taking it so much to heart. To my understanding, Deal will not get any money from the Port if the p/p plan goes through, but only Dover.
Howard has confirmed this, but I see that you still have the idea that it would bring in money to Deal.
If the p/p regulations state Dover, then that means not Deal.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Gary
you raise some very intresting points, and your view not to support the privatisation position by the peoples port proposalas barryw admits thats what it is)
I would gary like to think your third option of no sale at all to be one, but with both DHB and the peoples port both looking to privatise the third option although i have some support for, looks like won't happen.
The referendum maybe should have included all three options, that would have been interesting to see what came back.
this as iv said has a long way to run
so please gary don't feel isolated in your view, there are many of us with concerns
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
What is being proposed is NOT a trust; even though that is the phrase misleadingly used on the DPP web site - they have set up an Industrial & Provident Society, a body that is governed by the FSA and must be approved by them before it can commence to do business.
An FSA explanation of these can be seen here
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/doing/small_firms/msr/societies/index.shtml"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Actually the Peoples Port proposal is not privatisation. To contend that it is, is deliberate disinformation.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Absolutely Peter - it is changing from State to Community ownership
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Ross you have misread the legislation. Yes the FSA manages the register of Industrial Provident societies but does not supervise or regulate them unless they are involved in financial services.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
yes Peter you are right - posted too quickly without reading all the way through the stuff - my bad
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
And there are many bodies established with charitable or community objectives which carry the name 'trust'. The Dogs' Trust for example. There are many different kinds of trust.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Peter that is true - just in this case it is not helpful because of the perceptions it seems to be creating in the minds of many, judging from the post on here
(Oh and just to be clear I am broadly in favour of the proposal)
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
it's privitisation through the backdoor
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
how do you figure that out Keith?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
A shame that the word 'blame' is starting to rear its ugly head. As a board member of DPPTL I am not afraid of being blamed if the initiative fails. I am totally convinced that the Peoples Port is the way forward for Dover and am prepared to support it to the hilt. When people act so as to avoid blame they are not being true to themselves.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Peter - did I miss something there? who mentioned the "B" word?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Keith, last week I had a long chat with Lord Glasman after the town hall meeting. He told me that Ed Miliband is highly supportive of the DPPTL project. If Ed and Maurice don't regard it as privatisation how can you?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Ross, it was GaryC in post 385.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson