Gary, one of the great things about you is your ability to reflect, which I admire. Fair play to you, sir.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Algy Cluff and Sir Patrick Sheehy are not 'overseas businessmen'. They both live in the Dover & Deal constituency.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Please tell us then Peter what and where their Business are?
There is going to be a series of Chinese Whispers about this before the conclusion - let's just hope that people are able to reflect and cogitate and reach independent conclusions of their own.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Vic they are both household names.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter,
They might be household names in your house but for many, they are not well known, hardly Dovorians and calling them Dover business men is exactly what I am talking about. If it's their money you are going to use to set up the PP, mortgage lenders as you put it, why be cagey about them, just tell us the truth?
Algy Cluff is a man to admire, very colourful and he could quite possibly be dipping his hand in his pocket for more reasons than just profit.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Nobody has called them Dover businessmen. They are in fact both retired. Algy will be 70 this year and Sir Pat will be 80. They do not need or desire profit from their involvement, and they are offering their advice and services pro bono.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Thank you for that Ross, after reading some of their background,I would think it is safe to say both of them have alot of overseas contacts.
You say it like it's a bad thing!
GaryC, I don't think anyone is being cagey. Why would their money be any more suspicious than someone wiht addresses in London, Paris and New York?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Bern.I did not mean for it to come over that way,sorry.Both have done well and are a very big +for the UK ,And I am glad they both live in our District we could do with having more like them. I am just thinking about the port.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Barry: Re #330
"Ed - you need to catch up with the People Port - it will not be generating a profit to shareholders but to Dover Town instead."
I am well aware of that and the other facets of the People's Port proposals. My question was where this profit was to come from, and where the money to finance future maintenance and expansion was to come from, given that a privatised port will need to pay most, if not all, of the meagre income from the port as interest on the £200M+ it will have borrowed to purchase the port. My question was not actually directed at you as I have posed it before without receiving a satisfactory answer and recognise that you are not intimately involved in the privatisation bid. Neil Wiggins is posting some very interesting stuff on the front page and there is at last something to get one's teeth into.
"As for financing, many a successful businessman will tell you that you use other peoples money to invest....Investment is supposed to boost profits so borrowing to invest should more than pay for itself, generating more profit to be distributed to Dover's regeneration."
This would appear to me to be true only if the borrowing was to invest in additional facilities to deliver increased profits. The borrowing in this case however is to buy the existing port, which is presently operated for free on behalf of the nation. Money to invest in order to boost profits would need to be borrowed in addition to the £200m+ purchase price.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I've asked a similar question on the front page Ed, about borrowing extra money for major developments in the future, when there will already be large-scale borrowing for the original purchase in the form of a mortgage.
These questions need to be answered before the referendum, so we know we are voting for a body that will not only be sound to start with, but can future-fund any new developments, even large scale ones.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Ed - it is also true that you borrow to buy businesses as well as to develop them further. Indeed if the DHB plan were to go ahead the Port would be bought with borrowed money as well. This is all perfectly normal and Ports change hands all the time.
The big difference is whether its is the DHB plan that succeeds or the People's Port plan. I prefer People's Port and can see many benefits for Dover town arising from it.
The question is as simple as that at the end of the day. The DHB plan or People's Port plan? The status quo will not happen and in the highy unlikely case it did, it would be only a matter of time before DHB Directors would try again to enrich themselves with another bid and the People's Port then may not be an option.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Barry you can not say that ,The D.H.B. might have a cash Buyer, even Footballers have that kind of cash.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
valid point vic, there are people in the middle east that have the ready money to buy massive football clubs then throw in another £200 million to strengthen their playing squads.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
It is very unlikely indeed that anyone will be daft enough to do that with their own money. £200m is not a small amount even for a wealthy Arab sheik or Russian billionaire and even they tend not to have that kind of money laying around in cash and uncommitted. We have to remember that this is a pure business opportunity for a potential buyer and not a hobby or ego massaging project like a football club might be to some people. No, I suspect that this would not be a cash transaction.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
On the old back foot again Barry,time you went for a cup of tea.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Vic - you seem to have a somewhat strange imagination.... stick to the issues and the real world.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
top football clubs go for around £400 million, doesn't slow the oligarchs or oil sheiks down.
i agree that a big club is an ego massage, but so is having the most famous coastal view on their letterheads.