Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
For crying out loud Ed.... How on earth do you think the present set-up benefits the town? - it most certainly does not.
Staying the way we are is a recipe for more of the same, in other words decline and decay.
Its not even as if Dover benefits from the wages paid to the Port workers as it used to in the old days. Staff travel in to work these days and the best paid do not spend in Dover.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, your last line goes beyond your authority as Town Councillor, and comes under incorrect information as a partisan for the p/p cause. The fact that the referendum is carried out through the Town Council should even more so require you not to give such a totally misleading comment.
To not take part in the referendum does not mean being in favour of a port privatisation.
The P/p plan would put the ferry operators under enormous strain to pay up regularly in order for the Port of Dover to pay back 400 million pounds of debits at regular rates.
Seafrance for one is in a situation of insolvency, but has to pay back its debits by law (laws regarding free trade and commerce and the financing of businesses).
This insolvency situation has been momentarily dealt with on the grounds that Seafrance presented a large scale-back of its spending and number of employees, and that they MUST repay their debt.
Should something not work out - for example the price of oil could go up even more - and any of the major ferry operators in Dover have problems in paying Dover Port for berthing, Dover Port could go very quickjly into insolvency under a P/p ownership!
Now of all times, with so much uncertainty as to the cost of oil in the immediate and long-term future, and the economy worsening rather than improving, and with infllation at over 4%, people would be well advised to steer clear of the referendum, and accept that Dover Port's best chances are in remaining a State asset, with the possibility of a future amendment to the royal charter in order to benefit the local communities.
It is most unlikely that the Government will decide to sell the Port, with all the ecenomic troubles that are falling on our economy and on the worl economy.
I reiterate my previous post, and underline what I have stated in it, that the financial situation, in western banks in particular, has never been as uncertain as it is now.
People like Barry W explain away how everything is based on financial transactions of which most of us do not - and will not - understand 99%, because we cannot understand it. The 2008 banking crisis that hit almost every industrialised country is proof that the bankers themselves do not understand most of what it all stands for.
Shares do not exist unless they are vouchered for by paper money somewhere in some financial institution, or possibly through other shares, which in turn have to be vouchered for by yet other money or shares.
Barry's version that everyone who disagrees with his expertise does not understand anything, should be in itself a further invitation to avoid the referendum, because the P/p plan is paved with hidden financial obligations that would go much further than Dover Port.
There is probably no-one here who fully understands what all this implies, and how quickly fortunes could change, once the dented wheels of such financial borrowing-obligations started to turn.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You continue to demonstrate that you do not understand what is being said Alexander.
Several people have tried explaining the financing mechanisms, not just me. These particular mechanisms are very well understood by those involved in them and are long established.
You need to differentiate between different issues and that is part of your problem - you dont, you jumble a lot of stuff together in an incoherant mess going around and around in circles.
If we all went along with you on this we would be sealing the fate of Dover Port to be sold as a commercial concern to the highest bidder. The people of Dover have a chance today to demonstrate that they care about their town and the port by voting for the community to take it over and secure it as an asset to serve Dover as well as cross channel traffic. In doing so we will be sending a clear message to government that Charlie can exploit politically to block the commercial sale in favour of the People's Port.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
A non vote, those who are unable to vote (for what ever reason) and those who do not care what happens because they have real interest in town or port and do not bother to vote in any election, local or general.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
alex
just a minor observation in paragraph 7 of your post, the reverse is true.
owing to lack of funds the gvernment needs to offload the port.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I know that, Howard, but the Government knows that £900 billion or so of national debt cannot be even dented with a sale of Dover Port.
A high-risk venture as is th P/p plan would lead to a high-risk situation in Dover Port. A State asset without debt, and with an annual profit of between £15 million and £25 million, is better.
Let's not forget the substantial investments that DHB say are necessary for Eastern Docks alone, and for repairs in Western Docks, apart from a T2.
With a £400 million debit burden added, and increasing oil prices, the venture proposal is one of extremely high risk and uncertainty.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
High risk - balderdash Alexander. It is nothing of the kind, the City view it as a low risk venture and have indicated bonds will be priced as such.
Guest 711- Registered: 1 Mar 2011
- Posts: 194
Anyone know at what time the result of the referendum will be available?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
apparently later tonight, i was told that about midnight was favourite.
my own view is that it will be earlier, it is only dover town after all.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Alexander.
a) I post as Chris Precious, not as Cllr Precious and as such am entitled to my opinion.
b) How do you really think every No vote and non vote will be promoted by those who want a quick sale of the port?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 708- Registered: 22 Dec 2010
- Posts: 102
Been and done the biz. Lots of voters where turning up at our station had to queue for 20 mins.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
And I am sorry to say it will not mean alot at the end of the day.But as I said before if you think you are doing right that is all that matters.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
You forget Alex that all state assets are debt-funded. That is part of the reason our national debt is so huge.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Vic the queues at the polling stations say it all. There is huge public enthusiasm for the Peoples Port and I am afraid you will have to eat your words in the end. And that will be some feast!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Popped into cast my vote - long queues of people waiting to get their ballot paper - not something I have seen before in the polling station - clearly people are interested
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
same story here, just looked out people still going in.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
st martins hall polling stn for those interested had big big turnout for most of the day peopole having to wait a long time to vote,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Yes 5244
No 113
Spoiled 13
Turnout 25%.
98% yes vote.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
quite a result, turn out good for such short notice and limited hours.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
My yes vote was not missed after all, common sense has prevailed.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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