howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
any law cannot differentiate between sensible or otherwise cycling, it is either legal to cycle on pavements or it is not.
darren makes the point that they are not threatening to him, i am sure that is true.
however he is not an 80 year old without the ability to throw themselves out of the way of a speeding cylist.
the last time i stopped a cyclist to have a chat about their actions was about a year ago when he decided that the red light did not apply to him and tried to swerve around me on a crossing, i grabbed his handlebars and pointed out that two cars had stopped.
he grunted something kept his head down and cycled off through a green light.
I will ask my friend what she thinks about pavements cyclists shall I Ed ? Oh hold on I cant , guess why , she is dead !
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
The whole point is that the Rules of the Road have not been rewritten with regards to cyclists and we are not talking about big ships versus little boats in a great big expanse of sea.
I doubt if anyone would complain if the pavements were as wide as the new dual purpose one outside Morrisons that was designed for both but most pavements are very narrow and there is just not enough room for all the people never mind cyclists.
As for Jim's idea of "having a word", I would not fancy tackling the hoody and his friends that weave in and out of pedestrians near the Charlton Centre going against the traffic flow.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Sarah: I think you have to maintain a sense of proportion as to how much you can cottonwool people such that they are completely safe under all circumstances. For a nonagenarian such as your friend, you would need to ban people running, fat people with shopping baskets taking up lots of room, other nonagenarians and octagenarians unsteady on their feet who might fall into her, all cracks in all paving, and so on, the list is endless.
Cyclists and pedestrians can share the same space if they use a bit of commonsense. One would certainly expect cyclists to dismount and push their velocipedes if the pavements are crowded. As with everything else, it is the bad eggs who spoil it for the rest.
I would urge Howard to walk about wearing a camera titfer to record instances of cyclist indifference to pedestrians as per the cyclist's YouTube video below recording a bit of pavement rage. Perhaps the bad eggs can then be brought to book and shown the error of their ways.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford_messenger/news/2011/july/25/attacker_on_youtube.aspxGuest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Ed,
Nonsense!!!
Grow a pair and use the road as you are supposed to. How dare you bottle-out and put the entire responsibility upon a toddler!
Yours is the arguement of the paedophile.
When people are born with wheels attached, get back to me.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
So it was all her fault , thats nice to know , that an old lady walking to the shops who was hit from behind by a cyclist is responsible for her own death .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the subject of life being a risk has been brought up, we have roads and pavements designed to reduce risks not stop them entirely.
of course collisions happen between pedestrians usually resulting in minimal damage.
frail and elderly people do not run across the road dodging the traffic normally because they know the likely outcome, so they stick to pavements where it is much safer.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
As an infrequent cyclist - because I don't fancy the risks - I am inclined to agree with Ed. Much more could be done to make the environment safer for cyclists and so encourage them to use designated spaces. The pedestrian zone and the seafront are wide enough to accommodate both users with clearly delineated zones but, if you look at the mean amount of space given on the seafront, you get the feeling that cyclist safety and the promotion of cycling isn't given anything more than lip service.
I am not excusing anti-social behaviour by cyclists but bemoaning the missed opportunities, of which we seem to have so many!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the seafront certainly has the potential to be safe for both pedestrians and cyclists, the new development there chopped up the cycle lane into bits where it survives and other places where it doesn't.
when there was a dedicated cycle lane it did not stop many from ignoring it and and using the main thoroughfare, maybe that is why they did not bother with keeping a seperate lane?
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Tom Austin:
QUOTE "Ed, Nonsense!!! Grow a pair and use the road as you are supposed to. How dare you bottle-out and put the entire responsibility upon a toddler! Yours is the arguement of the paedophile. When people are born with wheels attached, get back to me." UNQUOTE
Why would I need to grow a pair and use the road as I am apparently supposed to? I am not a cyclist (see #97). I would need to grow a bike.
Where is there any reference to toddlers or paedophiles on this thread? Are you on the right thread? Planet?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Ed, I missed #97, but your arguement regarding our brave new world...
"I think we need to recognise that a lot of developments have taken place since the days when people walked everywhere and pavements were predominantly for pedestrians. The inventions of the bicycle, prams, baby buggies, mechanised sweepers, skateboards, mobility scooters, etc, etc, mean that pavements are now a shared space and pedestrians need to get used to it and keep their wits about them."
This IS you paedophile arguement. You propose to promote a wrong by specious reasoning.
Pavements are still for pedestrians and should remain so.
Precincts, where the motorist is excluded and where there may be a mixing of modes of transport the responsibility for safety must lie with the non-pedestrian and speeds should not exceed walking speed.
It is never good enough to blame the victim.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
It is not just the elderly who have problems with cyclists, what about the young mother with a couple of young children plus pushchair.
Pavements are for pedestrians, roads and cycle paths are for those on bikes. I will never get out of the way of a cyclist on the pavement they should not be there.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Most people obey the law. Cyclists riding on the pavement are breaking it. The police in this town do not enforce it. Either enforce it or change it. I have no objection to changing the law to allow cyclists to ride on pavements but I think they should have 3rd party insurance.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Agreed, except that the point of most law is risk reduction, and how would allowing cyclists to ride the pavements do that? Sarahs friend obeyed the law, the least she could have expected is the courtesy of the cyclist also obeying the law and not putting her so tragically at risk.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Good point Jan, there are plenty of careless pushchair users. It seems as though some parents think that by doing their bit to keep the species going entitles them to force you and your own children onto the road by walking side by side.
I'm fine with everyone having a bit of the pavement, it just requires all parties to have a bit of courtesy. As for bikes on roadside pavements, I agree there is no place or room for them. But when it comes to routes that have plenty of room, I think a bit of judgement and tolerance is just required by all.
Had a lovely cycle from Deal to Kingsdown today with my two little ones. Even in the stretches with no designated cycle path it works really well. That being said, my 4yr old girl (just off stablisers) did almost take out an inconsiderate pedestrian who was walking in the cycle path along the Strand.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
I think if the pavements are to be used by cyclists then they should be responsinble, every day I see cyclists on the pavement riding at speed against the flow of traffic, often catching pedestrians unaware.
If we are supporting moves to move cyclists to the road only, hopefully we are only talking about adults? as we would be putting children in danger to do otherwise.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
was in market square earlier for about 10 minutes very busy as you would expect in the school holdays.
5 errant cyclists went through the square, the winner undoubtedly was a man with a toddler(presumably his son) strapped on the back of the bike who made some people enjoying a coffee at the outdoor tables jump, he then went straight across the pedestrian red light withour appearing to look up then weaved at speed passed kfc in the direction of the seafront.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
yep howard it''s these geezers that give responsible cyclists a bad name
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Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,071
This is definitely the direction for cyclists. Although I believe it should also say 'lycra only lane' somewhere.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
Today we still see cyclists riding against the traffic and at speed
Lots accidents waiting to happen
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus