Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
PETER;
I don't have the time to go through all your posts, you have given views on unions in the past, and whether they are worthy any more or not.
but i'm happy to let that one go for another time
2; As I stated the Unite union probably has gone for this as the best they will get
strange our charlie trying to defend why his NON POLITICAL picture has gone
out on all the leaflets!!!
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I am the one who despises the Unions. but, in the interests of the Town I would sup with the devil himself and welcome his support. So yes, I put aside my feelings for the Unions and welcome them on the same side of this debate.
This issue has unified people of all political opinions and none in Dover and that is great.
Sad that you seem to be sitting on the fence still Keith. A stance overly influenced perhaps merely by the fact that the scheme is one supported and being fought for by our Tory MP.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
you are sounding like churchill after he signed the pact with joe stalin.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
BARRYW
Peter to hasim sure not been a great defender of unions but wont get to heavily into that one.
I do yes see this as a political stunt by charlie, but that apart, there remains many unaswered questions so i would be making the same judgement if it were a labour MP or any other party.
mine is not a political stand, mine is one of considered judgement
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
apparently neil made the initial approach to gwyn when he was the honourable member, who was keen to run with it.
one can only wonder if the same support would have come from the blue brigade if gwyn was fronting the campaign.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I am not sure at all that he was keen to run with it. We know he was approached intially but the election intervened.
Personally I have said for years that DHB does not operate in the best interests of the Town and when everyone else were simply opposing any kind of sale I was saying that what matters was how it was done and what benefit Dover gets out of it. The People's Port ticks all my buttons better than anything I suspected might happen so yes, I would have supported it and I suspect a lot of Conservatives would too. Big Society - after all....
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Interesting question Howard. The other interesting question is whether we would have got this far if Gwyn were still MP.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
All I can had to this is that the Union was taken in by alot of sweet talk ,which will show up later on.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
You really do have the knack of ignoring other people's post's.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Whose post have I ignored?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I believe that a new card has been added to the table!
With oil destined to go up a very lot, owing to the realisation that atomic power plants are a deadly menace to Mankind, and gas and coal about to go up too (indeed the Financial Times today reports that these three resources have gone up in price considerably since the nuclear disaster in Japan), any idea of privatising State assets such as Ports will fall apart.
The ferry operators will have a hard time paying for petrol, and will probably have to increase their prices AND make do with less profits.
Now this is rational and reasonable thinking of mine, not a blind spuculation, considering the alarming circumstances as they are unfolding in Japan, and the articles that news-papers are now writing.
The Financial Times reports that even permits for carbon emissions have gone up 25% since the Japan disaster, as oil, gas and coal are likely to be sought after in much larger quantities, where-as the cost of uranium has slumped 25% in a few days!
I doubt the people's port project could rely on the ferry operators footing the bill of a 400 million pound debt at this point, and I doubt that the Government will sell assets such as ports now anyway, but will rather try to maximise an income from them, that goes to local port-maintenance, and to local and national Government treasuries.
The oil crisis as it is now unfolding will cause a terrible recession except in countries that export the oil and gas, and ferry operators will be hard hit!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
These price rises are short term shocks and caused both by panic and by speculation. Once the Japanese situation is sorted everything will return to normal.
Oil will fall back below $100 very shortly.
Alexander, do you remember the Muppet Show? I think I shall rename you and Vic as Waldorf & Statler for the purposes of this thread.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Peter please lets keep talking like that out of it.it just shows that you are not happy in the way this is all going with your plan.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Very happy with the way it is going Vic.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Peter, this thread is the right one to mention the future prospects of fuel prices, as the ferry operators may have to re-do their operating calculations.
Presently, there are oil reserves that countries like the USA fall upon when prices go up suddenly: these are reserves that have been previously purchased when the prices were lower.
With an extreme price-rise in oil, the reserves tend to be drawn upon, reducing the demand for imports, and this counter-ballances the increase per barrel.
When the oil price goes down again, then imports of petrol increase, and the reserves of oil in the USA and other countries are stocked up.
However, may-be you should know that Japan is expected to increase oil imports by 500,000 barrels a day, plus coal and gas in much larger quantities than hitherto, in order to replace the energy that a number of atomic stations are not and will not be able to produce.
Germany has closed down all 17 nuclear power plants for check-ups, but seven of them will not run anymore, owing to the Japan crisis and the ensuing nuclear scare.
Other countries have frozen any projects on new atomic power stations.
To be realistic, your preview of how oil-prices will return to normal, is not in line with what highly qualified analysts are writing, Peter.
A long-term increase in oil, gas and coal imports will make even the stock-piling of reserves become very, very expensive, and these may even run out, meaning that imports of carbon fuel will depend directly on availability from the oil/gas fields and coal-mines.
As far as oil is concerned, I consider it highly unlikely that the ferry-operators, DHB (the legal operator of Dover Port) and Gov. will not take these new events into account. I simple cannot se Gov. going ahead now with any form of Port sale or privatisation, as the asset is too valuble to jeopardise, and the ferry-operators must be protected from having to foot a 400 million pound debit.
You should note that DHB receive their income mainly from arrival of ships at berths, but if increasing ticket prices (owing to fuel costs) lead to more vehicles using the Channel Tunnel, the ferries might even have to cut down on crossings, in order to save fuel, and maximise the vehicle volume on the crossing that remain.
It is all an if and might here, I know, but it is something that the Government is unlikely to overlook. We simply cannot afford to take the risk of jeopardising the ferry operators and our Port, and in such times of economic catastrophe as now (with talk even of cancelling unemployment/housing benefit) and child-benefits, and masses of people being laid off from the public and private sectors, I cannot see the p/p adventure, which is an extremely high-risk venture proposal, coming to any fruition!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Thank you for your input, Alexander. I shall pass that on to my colleagues on the Board.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I feel we have gone around the block so many times on this one it is time just to sit back and see what happens.All sides keep going over and over it, saying mainly the same things.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter,
I spoke to several other DHB lads last night, all saying the same, as said in my last post. They have been talked into believing there are only two options that is why they are supporting PP.
What proof, facts, do you have, that the third option is dead?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Gary, they have no proof at all,again they are not puting out all the facts only the ones they want the public to know about,they have done it that way hoping the public will be taken in by what they are puting around the town and their own Referendum,which again has only put the two options on it that THEY WISH THE PUBLIC TO VOTE ON.
SMILEY:no
.
I SAY AGAIN TO THE PUBLIC DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IT IS A CON.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
That last sentence is probably defamatory Vic.
But I agree with your #617, we should await the result. I have said all I am going to say and I am getting tired of repeating myself.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson