Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger and Pat, it's probably reasonable to assume that there has been, and will be in the future, an increase of freight traffic through Kentish ports.
The yearly value in freight is probably tens of billions of pounds a year for each of these ports.
A very small taxation on this freight passing through Kent's ports by way of a levy, in line with European policies of motorway tolls and similar tolls (tunnels) would bring in revenue for any further port infrastructure, port and road maintenance, and for local Councils.
Let's say, instead of increasing VAT by 1 or 2 per cent, or instead of increasing other taxes to an equivalent amount. It would be a direct taxation footed by users of ports and roads rather than an indiscriminate tax increase on the whole economy (VAT or other).
Pat, as you wrote recently that you were in favour of a port levy, it would be an idea to take it again into consideration now, for all British ports. In Kent we have Dover and the Channel tunnel, and with the public consultation on Dover Port and the formulation of a referendum on Dover Port being discussed, may-be now would be the right time to consider this option of a port levy in all British ports.
If this would not be aligning British economy with European economy in terms of transport fees and financing of transport infrastructure, then I do not know what alignment with European policies stands for. They do it, and quite rightly, so what are we waiting for?
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Very interesting figures quoted by Roger. As with Pat Sherratt, I spent an hour or so mulling over the figures on the DHB website trying to reconcile these with their figure of +6% for Road Haulage Vehicles (RHV). Puzzling to say the least.
The Eurotunnel results for 2010 state that there has been an estimated 16% contraction in the number of trucks carried in the overall cross-channel market compared to 2007 as a result of the economic crisis. They have now regained their share of this market after suffering the loss of most of this traffic to the ferries throughout 2009 after the disastrous fire in September 2008.
Re the reduction in the number of ship entries. There is still gross over capacity in the cross channel market. It was quoted as 180% a few months ago. Since then, LD Lines have pulled out of the Dover-Boulogne route taking two ships out of the equation. SeaFrance are in meltdown but look to be rescued by further funds from SNCF and, rather surprisingly, are still running the Nord Pas de Calais in addition to the Rodin/Berlioz/Moliere. The Renoir and Cezanne have been laid up for years and do not enter the equation. P&O are running the same number of ships as previously, with the Spirit of Britain replacing the Pride of Dover. The relief vessel European Endeavour has been transferred elsewhere which will have reduced the number of ship entries slightly. DFDS continue to run their three superferries as normal.
In summation, freight seems to be blighted for years to come. Tourist traffic is on the increase, possibly due to people holidaying closer to home in this time of economic gloom plus the effects of the turmoil in the Arab world. Although freight is the mainstay of the ferries, the ferry companies look upon the tourist market as the source of expansion in the short term. Similarly, Eurotunnel is bringing back into service a passenger shuttle which it mothballed some years ago.
Ed
glad you came to similar conclussion as myself.
Based on figures you and I now have seen I believe Rogers post is actually Eurotunnels increase in market share for Jan/Feb and nothing to do with market growth.
Of course there are no public figures from Eurotunnel until Mid-April (for the period Jan to March) so DHB probably "exchange" their carrying statistics with Eurotunnel.
DHB state the total RHV market increased by 7.9% for period Jan/Feb and this represents a similar growth level that the market enjoyed prior to recession in 2007. This is highly encouraging if eventually confirmed when Eurotunnel release their first quater trading results.
What is clearly still occuring in the market place is that Eurotunnel are still "buying" their traffic to increase their market share at the cost of traffic through the Port of Dover.
At Eurotunnel (unlike DHB) they are both "transport/carrier" operator as well as "port" operator. DHB rely on the ferry operators to generate traffic and take the commercial risk. It is this failure by DHB to recognise their stakeholders (the ferry operators in this case) who are in competition with a business that is able to determine the overall price and is the reason Dover operators are in disagreement with the DHB over proposed 35% increases in port tariffs over the next three years.
Alexander
1. Yes as the country recovers from recession the RHV traffic through SE England ports should recover...see my comments to Ed above.
2. Like you, I have long advocated for a "local entrance levy". However this must be accross allUK ports otherwise Dover could be disadvantaged. As you are so well aware if the money goes direct to the Treasury it is unlikely that much would return to Dover for road infrastructure improvements (E.G. A tunnel under Townwall Street) or regeneration. \\your post of 12th March at 1031pm on the front page is a very sensible way for Central Government to set up a levy that would benefit the different areas of thecommunity.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
There are rumours circulating among port and port-related personnel this evening that there is no point in taking part in the referendum because the port has already been sold. I have heard this independently from people working for P&O, DFDS and HM Border Agency. Each has been told that it must be true because it comes from 'a high level'.
These rumours are untrue. The Secretary of State has not yet made a decision.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
How can we cascade this quickly? Putting it on DF will be a great start - are there other sites we can use?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Well Peter,I did tell you some time ago that it would go D,H,B, way and if the port goes it will be sold off to the highest buyer and that will the one already standing by, and D.H.B. know this. So join up with myself and 99% of the public that want it to stay a Royal Port.
Vic, you cannot say the 99% of the public want that, it is not only not true it is also unsupportable. What are you thinking? Please, Vic, think before typing!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the truth of the matter is that most people in dover do not actually care what happens to the port, they feel that they are victims of it.
yes there was a turnout of 400 enthusiastic people at the town hall last week, what percentage of the population though?
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,904
Most of those that come in the shop could not care less as they feel it does not affect them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I don't think so Howard, the strangers who accost me in the street all profess their full support for the DPP Trust. I don't know any of these people to whom Vic refers. Vic would be appalled to know how many of his UKIP members came downstairs after his AGM and signed the petition which he had told them to ignore.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Peter
you tell a good story
but please in the interest of the p/port please dont look at the issue in a blinkered way
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Peter! The Port has not been sold, so it's pretty pointless scaremongering the people into voting for the DPPT project in this manner. You must be quite desparate!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Thank you Alexander, at least we both agree that the port has not been sold.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
The percentage of the electorate in favour of the port remaining a Trust Port is presumably very high judging from the last two parliamentary elections. In the one before last, the Conservatives said that they would sell off the port and give all the proceeds to the citizens of Dover. They were decisively rejected. They did not make the same mistake in the last election and Charlie pronounced himself totally opposed to privatisation right up until being elected. Gwyn never wavered from being opposed to privatisation.
The option of remaining a Trust Port is not included in the DTC referendum. Neither is the option for other British companies such as Forth Ports to purchase the port. The only option in the referendum is to vote for the Peoples Port or the DHB plan, neither of which the majority of the electorate would appear to favour judging from the parliamentary elections.
As this limited referendum has been called by supporters of the Peoples Port, one imagines that they will turn out in force to vote for their own scheme. The majority of the electorate who are in favour of the status quo will not be involved as the options on offer specifically exclude them and doubtless apathy will rule with the remainder.
I would therefore confidentally forecast an overwhelming vote in favour of the Peoples Port. This will send a clear message to the government that the great majority of those in favour of the Peoples Port have voted in favour of the Peoples Port.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
excuse me for being a bit slow in this matter,but would like to know a couple of things.
1,what day is the referendum being held on.
2,what are the polling times.
3,will we be getting polling cards.
4,what parts of dover are voting.
could you reply in plain english please.
thankyou.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The status quo is simply not an option Ed. Neither is it in the best interests of Dover, all that would ensure is that things carry on in future, in the town, as in the past and that is just not good enough.
The People's Port or the DHB scheme - that is the only choice we have in truth. Keeping it as now is no more than a fantasy, one that has no added benefit or advantage to anyone in Dover.
Brian - I know answers to some of your questions.
1/ Wednesday 23rd March
2/ 4 to 9 pm
3/ I don't know
4/ Dover Town Council wards
I hope someone can answer your question 3, that is an important one as it is essential that everyone knows about it and that is the best way to communicate that the poll is on.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Ed, the Peoples Port is not mentioned in the question to be put in the referendum, just 'the local community'. Yes it was pushed for by the PPT and they are offering a proposal that fits the bill but the question being asked is about stating which preference you have, DHB's sale to the highest bidder or a transfer to the Dover community. A massive vote against DHB's sale plan does not bind the people of to PPT but it does make it very clear that the people of Dover want an option that benefits them and not just the DHB board members.
The other option is to do nothing, stand on the sidelines moaning and then afterwards saying, "you can't blame me I didn't vote for nothing".
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Well said Ed.I can add no more,you have put it alot better than I did sir.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
question 3
polling cards are not required at any election, i would suggest that people take some form of i.d. though such as a utility bill.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,904
Polling times are rather restricted! They rule out a lot of the elderly and others who are working, obviously they were thought up by an office worker.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
