Prince of Wales Pier
- 28 October 2015 10:39287492Mr Garstin that will never happen and it would be a wast of time and money the Plans have been passed and good ones they are and also talking about resignation etc is also a wast of time sorry Mr Garstin your very small group of the public will not stop the plans. You are still upset that you did not get your own way by trying to sell the port off years ago .There is no lying, the DHB have had public meetings, in my way of thinking far to many over the last 3years .They have been engaging the public every step of the way ,if you did not go to the meetings then that is down to yourself.
My own view is that the D.H.B. should stop reading what is said by a few on the Dover Forum and get down to getting the job on the way now and that would stop all this kind of talk. - 28 October 2015 11:22287493There's a new Combined Design and Access and Heritage Statement on the planning website. 55 pages long so easy to selectively quote depending on your viewpoint, I'll select this one:
"The present character of the Prince of Wales Pier can be described as a historic
recreational landscape. Piers represent an important part of British seaside recreational
architecture and the Prince of Wales Pier represents part of this tradition. The Pier is still
in use today as a promenade. The proposed enabling works and wider DWDR scheme
will remove public access to a historic promenade and the Pier will be substantially
altered in terms of its current use and appearance. This represents a substantial impact
on the listed structure which is an important component of the maritime landscape and
of high local importance (Maritime Archaeology Ltd, 2008b)." - 28 October 2015 11:40287495That is not true the public will still have access to walk and have a meal if they wish to .Also there will be new seating.
- Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,258
28 October 2015 12:28287496Vic you consistently say the opinion of the few on this forum, personally the views I post are representative of my family, friends and the wider community that I engage with on a regular basis. The points discussed on the forum are an extension of the conversations I have at home as I am sure is the case with the majority of forum members.
I am currently travelling around northern England visiting family who are all Dovorians and follow the happenings in Dover with keen interest they all without exception are against the approach DHB are taking with regard the pier yet Support the redevelopment.
The point being Vic in my circle of the community I could list a couple of hundred people who are concerned yet have no interest in expressing them through a forum like this, but keep up you responses and comments as it keeps the discussion alive and allows more people to form their own opinion on the issues.Arte et Marte - 28 October 2015 12:36287498Around 80.000 live in the district.
- 28 October 2015 12:45287500Vic Matcham wrote:That is not true the public will still have access to walk and have a meal if they wish to .Also there will be new seating.
There is nothing in that statement from the DHB submission that isn't true.
The only part of the pier remaining unburied will be the short curved section at the end, and Tim Waggot has said recently that this will be an operational port area that will only be accessible to the public when there are no operations in progress and the public will need to be escorted.
I'm all for new facilities being provided on the seafront but they will be provided on the new marina curve, and details on that are scarce so far. - 28 October 2015 12:48287501Reginald I do so agree with you. I know I have a lot of friends who feel as we do and I'm sure, as you say, that this applies to a lot of other people on here. There may not be hundreds of members of our forum but there are always loads of people viewing it if you check the figures.
Vic will argue until the cows come home and insists that he is right even though in this case he is wrong.
Hope you're enjoying your travels and that the weather is being kind to you
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok". - 28 October 2015 13:34287505I have been going around alot to just come back from 3weeks in Golspie in the highlands and before that Stoke and off again very soon. It is not the case of me being right or wrong but it is about how some of you are being mislead into what is and is not being build.The public will not have to be escorted.where that came from I will never know.Also things are being said about what Mr Waggot said or did not say that are very much untrue.
- Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,258
28 October 2015 13:38287506That came to me personally from the new public liason spokesman, forget his name but he previously worked at port of shoreham, fact Vic I'm afraid.Arte et Marte - 28 October 2015 13:43287508Then he has it wrong like some of you.
- 28 October 2015 13:48287509Everyone appears to be wrong except for one.
- 28 October 2015 13:49287510So now DHB Chief Executive Tim Waggott and DHB public liaison officer are wrong, but Vic is still right!
"In an interview with Dockside, port chief executive Tim Waggott said: "When the end of the Prince of Wales Pier is not used by cargo and freight ships we can facilitate escorted access to the rest of the pier."" Posted on Dover Express website on 25/10 by Jordan Bluer. - 28 October 2015 14:18287512Thanks you, Peter, for bringing the matter of a referendum regarding the DHB board at the AGM, I wholly support this proposal. I have been looking into DHB claims on who their major cargo customers are at this time and why DHB need the new cargo port facilities in the Western Docks. According to various DHB websites the name Africa Express Line ltd comes up a number of times as one of DHB two main customers at present, the worrying thing is when you look at the Africa Express Line Ltd website and their shipping schedules it shows that their only docking point in the UK at this time is in fact Portsmouth!
For reference please see
www.africaexpressline.com/liners-and-schedules
and
www.doverport.co.uk/cargo
Once more it seems that DHB are not being truly open and transparent with the people of Dover.A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory. - 28 October 2015 14:33287514Mr Vic. Just facts as published by the DHB and as can be garnered from a visit to the DWDR sales room on the seafront:
"On completion of the scheme, residents and visitors will again have renewed access to the areas of the Prince of Wales Pier adjoining the marina, with further pedestrian access on the new eastern marina walkway."
The drawings on DHB publicity clearly show no general future access to the end of the current Prince of Wales Pier and the above quote makes it clear that only the section of the Prince of Wales Pier adjoining the Marina will have public access. In addition the DWDR showcase and the talk that goes with it makes it clear that the seaward section of the Prince of Wales pier beyond the end of the Marina will be cut off from the current walk by a freight traffic way connecting the new eastern cargo berth to the cargo berths and freight yard on the Western side of the Prince of Wales Pier.
In an interview, port chief executive Tim Waggott said: "When the end of the Prince of Wales Pier is not used by cargo and freight ships we can facilitate escorted access to the rest of the pier. But with the Western Docks Revival project there will be a new marina, and more seafront access than before."
Read more: http://www.dover-express.co.uk/Historic-pier-stay-open-new-year/story-28025393-detail/story.html#ixzz3ps3wRiCy
Follow us: @doverexpress on Twitter | doverexpress on Facebook
There will be a new pier at the Eastern edge of the new Marina when it is constructed and this new pier will be open for the public to walk along.
So - Mr Vic, you seem to be promoting a view that is not in accordance with DHB's publications, the DWDR showroom or the CEO's press interviews.
I get the distinct impression that everyone on this forum except you has total clarity about what is to be built around the Western Harbour. In order to make their minds up about whether or not they are in favour of this DWDR development, people need clear, unambiguous information, preferably supported by evidence re jobs and traffic. The DHB has certainly provided some detailed drawings and some supplementary written info that can be used by people to inform their own opinion and many commenters on this forum have clearly reached a decision, and have made comments, on the basis of the information provided by the DHB.
Dovorians currently have access to seafront promenade and Prince of Wales Pier measuring approx. 1000m from the place marked for the beginning of the new Eastern Marina Pier. After the construction of the DWDR (including Marina and new Marina pier is completed), the public will have access to 1050m of pier walks and seafront promenade according to DHBs own drawings. Some 300m of this will be on a wider promenade on the Western side of the Marina on what is currently the Prince of Wales Pier. This area is what the DHB frequently refer to as 'The Marina Curve' and it is this area where artists impressions indicate cafes and bars and a seated view over the proposed new marina. - 28 October 2015 14:38287515Well spotted Nicola I don't recall any of their vessels calling as every one in and out is covered by the "Sea News" thread. Portsmouth, is of course, in competition with Dover for the refrigerated fruit business.
- 28 October 2015 14:40287516I have just read with interest both Mick Tedder's and Jordan Bluer's articles in the Dover Express related to DHB and the closure of the Prince of Wales Pier, unfortunately these articles only seem to compound what I and many other Dovorians have been feeling for some time that DHB and its board have chosen to ignore their responsibilities to the people of Dover and their requirement in the Modernising Trust Ports Document to be open and transparent, something which to date seems to have passed DHB by.
As for the new and better access to Admiralty Pier, have you tried to get there as a pedestrian, it is by no means the most easy or aesthetic walk in Kent... I will be so proud to be able suggest to tourists "Please come and walk through our lorry park to get to our newly more accessible pier, its an experience you won't forget".
As things stand I don't believe an out-of-towner could even find a way to walk from the Prince of Wales Pier to the Admiralty Pier easily.
All this and Tim Waggott's new statement that "When the end of Prince Of Wales Pier is not used by Cargo and Freight ships we can facilitate escorted access to the rest of the pier"
Please, Mr Waggott, in reality how would this work???
I want to go for a walk on the POWP, I have to wait for a day when it is convenient for DHB to let me have access to a part of Dover that has had free access for its people for the better part of a hundred years, and once I find out a day that I can have access, I have to have my hand held by a DHB employee in a high vis jacket. Is this new employment post one of the supposed new 600 good quality jobs that DHB promised the people of Dover? I for one would like to walk on our community port pier when I chose, as we and visitors can do now. I'm sorry, Mr Waggott, your platitudes on this matter are not going to blind the good people of Dover to the folly you and DHB are embarking on with your plans for the Western Docks; this site with the £120 million you are about to spend on, spent on it in other ways could truly regenerate Dover and boost employment, rather than create a new albatross to hang around the necks of the local population.
With new and cheaper forms of cargo transport on the close horizon, where and how cargo and freight will be transported will change radically by the year 2025, side-lining places such as the new Western docks cargo facility.
What everyone has to consider is that if the cargo port fails, it could place the whole port of Dover in the hands of its creditors, for them to sell off to who they wish. This is the wrong project, on the wrong site, at the wrong time, with no future proofing and without adequate funds to deliver all phases of the proposed plan 100%. Just one more white elephant eyesore for the next generation of Dovorians to have to deal with.A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory. - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,880
28 October 2015 15:03287518It takes a lot to annoy me but Vic's continued waffle (sorry opinion) is really beginning to bug me simply because he refuses to admit he just might possibly be wrong even when presented with absolute facts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - 28 October 2015 15:14287520Our annoyance with Vic's 'opinions' only encourages him even more. Just ignore him.
Like Reginald said, keep the responses coming and keep the discussion alive and at the forefront of the forum's topics.A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory. - Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,258
28 October 2015 16:21287522Vic he's employed by DHB why would you know better yourself when you yourself say you only go on what you see and read?Arte et Marte - 28 October 2015 19:04287533I stand by what I say but thank you for your remarks and the way you have wrote them, looks like Mr Wiggins has come off the fence at last ,does that mean he has given up the hope of being a paid member of the D.H.B.I feel that I have come to the end of the road on this one.I support and stand behind the DHB on what they are going to do in my view it is the best way forward for both the port and Dover,