I still haven't seen the evidence of lies on pamphlets. That is a serious accusation and needs to be backed up or withdrawn.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
best not to hold your breath bern, this close to an election its is easy to throw mud around and make it stick.
the morals are clearly questionable.
Unregistered User
Bern, try how they left the District in a sound financial state in 2003 & Conservatives inherited fantastic reserves.
Then those that WANT TO REMEMBER will recall the Simon Bannister statement " we had the money so we spent it".
Try the independent Auditors criticising them for unplanned capital spending & not having enough reserves!
Try the decimatision of the Tourism Dept & local budget.
Try the removal of financial supprt for local Post Offices.
Try removal of funding from economic development & Town Centre Management.
The threat to close the Town Hall etc.etc.
And that was when local government finance was healthy!!!
Hope that helps & remember Keith was a key member of their Cabinet.
Remember the recent debate about press statements & pictures that were not true relating to Dover Atheltic FC, Keith again.
Look at JHG's posting about balanced budgets. He does not understand the difference between budget setting & annual financial out turns. If he does he is misleading, you the public.
Could go on but how much more evidence do you need to show that it is not as it seems.
Watty
1
Paul - I wouldn't dream of arguing with you about those issues - you know more about local politics than I. But the items in your post are issues rather than lies. And budgets are a moveable feast and a bit like Stats - they can appear in different guises depending on who is interpreting them, as you and I probably both know! If an accusation of lies has been made, the lies need to be bullet pointed and exposed so that a proper scrutiny can be made.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Sue I have not accused anyone of telling lies I did suggest that Roger has missed several points in his 4 years on the Council,while on the subject where did the money come for the New Children's areas in Pencester and Connaught,because I am hearing this was financed by the Council,I seem to remember that Goverment money was behind it.
The other thing in the Paper said we will have a second budget in September,which of course we can't and that was never an issue,and we didnt say that either,we did say we would look at priorities in the budget and perhaps realine it eg.keep the Dog Warden but do away with a Legal person,actually we could probably make 2 positions on what we say by doing away with one of our 10 legal dept.I will not be part of the Cabinet but have been party to the talks we have had,and there is nothing there to change dramatically.
Thanks for those who have read our leaflet and pointed out it is straighforward,it promises that we will fight for the people,and defend frontline staff,eg dog warden for backroom solicitor,it doesn't attack on a personal basis anyone just the Tory policies.
On the housing issues we asked for a review of all major house building as we are now in finacially difficult times and we are not sure if the jobs are there for thousands of houses in Whitfield and Sholden,we asked to have time to review these major programmes and that was turned down by the Tories.For the sake of a few Months.
On recycling we are not opposed to Wheelie bins....but realise that in some areas and some people cannot have them,I can and would look forward to them but in Tower Street,the High part of Maxton the little streets in the old part of Sandwich where they have no garden,lots of steps or where the people are old disabled or blind must have some option not to have the 3 wheelie bins.Common sense really but when I asked in Council who would decided who would be able who to opt out from the Wheelie Bin collection,the opposition had fun pointing out that the Binman or the Cllrs could decided,I am not qualified to decide if someone disability means that they could have a weekly collection via the black sacks,and I am sure the bin men aren't qualified to do that either.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Unregistered User
The lie is that Labour left the District in a sound financial state with large reserves [I paraphase]. That is why I have emphasised the above.
Howard & others will remember the scenario.
I have also tried to illustrate to Forum members the anomalies & credibility of some of those posting.
Someone queried Sue's post, I am confirming the validity of her statement. There is much more & very recent but people will become bored.
Watty
Anomalies and poor credibility are still not "lies". I don't mean to labour the point (pardon the very weak pun) but an accusation of lies on official pamphlets has been made and it would be helpful to know exactly what those lies are, outlined and bullet pointed.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
If I had seen a Tory leaflet it would help,but 5 days to go and nothing.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Unregistered User
Bern,
Thought I made that point clear. When Labour lost control in 2003; they have published in their current election leaflet; that the Council's finances were in good order[I paraphase].
Clearly untrue. They left a deficit in their budget for the following administration & were consistly criticised by the District Auditor for their financial management.
Might be obscure & historical to some but that is the lie.
JHG has also says they can't have a second budget in September , yet their Finance Spokesman said publicly they would. JHG's also wrong & they can apply a supplementary Council Tax mid way thru. a year.
Note back tracking.
More could be supplied but as I said it is typically boring for the average Forumite.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
paul
a brief ok at your list shows you are correct, i will have a thorough read later and give my views.
the main points you have skilfully avoided i.e. the claim that the reds will cancel any future development work and the claim about lies on a red pamphlet.
these are serious allegations and as many have said on here it is case of "put up or shut up".
like john i have not reeived a blue leaflet so cannot comment on the comments, i have received 2 red ones that were just the usual mundane local election stuff.
this issue will not go away, i was in town earlier for less than an hour and was approached by three people(i don't even know their names but know me by my mugshot on the forum) askin me about the truth of the allegations, they all looked at me doubtfully when i said i didn't know.
Thanks Paul (please don't underestimate the average Forumite!!!!!) and Howard. Politics is indeed a dirty business. Both of those words hold true!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
paul
looked through your post, a couple of points to raise here:-
a) the reds did decimate the tourism budget and the blues hae continue to do so.
b) the reds were considering closing the town hall, the blues put it into private hands so the public only get the chance to see inside when allowed to.
c) you forgot to mention at the same time there was talk of closing the fountain, there was uproar rightly so.
when i walked past it today it was still boarded up and looking forlorn next to the laughingly called plant troughs.
Unregistered User
Sorry Howard, I will check thru. your points. I had not picked up the points you have identified or where the statements were made. Can you reference them for me please.
I have replied to the Financial points which you have confirmed.
Bern. I don't underestimate Forumites, I have been posting here in both administration & opposition so know the value of accurate comment and debunking of placed misinformation.
Watty
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
DESPERATE POLITICS;
Laet's even this up a little,or the forum will look as though it's just here to promote the conservative party.
on reserves my understanding is the present conservative administration has taken dosh from the reserves in the past 2 years not small dosh either
something they said they would never do.
i'v been out canvassng around the district and this latest onslaught from paiulw/roger/barryw etc is a clear indication that they know there ship is sinking.
leading tories iv spoken to around the district(more so in the marginals) are already set to go into opposition.
i realise paulw has to talk the good talk, but in reality he knows deep down his time is up,
may the 5th will see labour elected into office.
i have spoken to gordon cowan with regard to the tory leaflet lies which said labour would when in office put up the council tax.
he refutes that, and says it woiuld be political suicide so it wont happpen
can't be any clearer than that.
so please, sue don't come on here about labour lies
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
With regard to Bern's comment "please don't underestimate the average Forumite!!!!!".
I could not agree more

, part of the problem with ALL political parties is that their followers tend to think we are thick.
We voters do have brains, we can read between the lines, we do not believe half of what we are promised and lastly I for one find the constant nit-picking thoroughly boring and a big turn off.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It was said in the Council Chamber that they would have a September budget.
Unless you have moved Howard, you have had our leaflets.
I have a red leaflet that goes on about the National Government - we are local Government; we didn't keep going on about the National Labour Government at local election time, we deal with what we have.
Your leaflet goes on about inefficiency and waste, there has been no inefficiency or waste.
There is no smashing of local services.
There is no removal of services from vulnerable people.
It's just full of scare-stories and what to me, are lies - are lies a matter of opinion or a matter of fact.
If the Director of Finance says we have had balanced budgets for the last 3 years, are you calling him a liar ?
No one is giving up Keith, I simply don't believe that senior Conservatives have told you that, there is no need for us to think or say that; there is no hint that we are about to lose, none whatsoever.
There is no desperation, no sinking ship, just a bouyant feeling that the Conservatives will once again be running the administration, but as we all know, the electorate decide and I hope they won't be taken in by the nonsense in the red leaflets.
There are small pockets where we don't have the majority support, but there are other pockets where we have very strong support and that has always been the case.
Roger
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER;
Fantastic, that you have been taken in by it all,
roll on may 5th not long cant wait.
for me i would like a labour administration, and i have answrered the rest.
i have answered all the other mistruths in deal
time is short, and the conservatives are getting more and more desperate knowing there time is running out, and iv been canvassing across the district(not always for the labour party!!!)
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Unregistered User
Keith , can I quote the great Ronald Reagan by saying "there you go again".
What marginals are you talking about?
I doubt anyone in the targets seats would talk to you, other than Reg or those of your political flavour.
So you've been out canvassing for Labour, rather discredits your previous statements .
Wonder why we talk about lies Howard!!
Now we have Keith making statements about Conservative policy on reserves, not denying Labour financial mismanagement in his time. Their election manifesto statements[I paraphase].
Rather tells the story.
JHG back tracking, Keith dropping himself in it & quoting Gordon now turning on his Finance spokesman.
What a mess.
Can you trust these chancers to run the proverbial "p---- up in the brewery".
Now I realise Keith is cheer leader [not a candidate] so that shows Forumites how desperate they are.
Watty
Unregistered User
By the way , I never make predictions in Elections.
THE PEOPLE WILL DECIDE.
Watty
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paulw
you are correct im not a candidate nor will i ever be for local councils, so that clears that one up.
i cannot make the statement clearer from the labour party on council tax
and paulw not denying the tories mess on reserves
I agree only with one thing in all your posting paulw that is the people will decide
thankfully
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS