howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I always wonder why "luddites" are singled out as backward people when in fact they were simply trying to preserve their livelihoods.
Guest 1831- Registered: 1 Sep 2016
- Posts: 395
Ahh. The Luddites...
Well, we had the meeting in rooms which looked fab all decked out in display boards, press cuttings, books, posters - a real campaign headquarters.
Unfortunately, Shaun Nicholson (Head of Licensing) missed the train to Deal due to delays on the East Coast line so had to listen in to the meeting from Matthew Kindmond's blackberry from the parcel yard at Kings Cross. Not very satisfactory for any of us and he was genuinely apologetic at missing the meeting in person.
I can safely say we left Matthew in no doubt about the strength of our feeling and how we would not give up; he is now very aware that if the MMO grant a licence, we will go for judicial appeal. He listened intently to all our concerns and we pointed out the inconsistencies in the application and points raised by the statutory consultees (Natural England and Historic England). The Environment Agency now objecting is a major coup for us, although they have asked for further information from DHB which I hope won't make them change their mind back again!
He was impressed by the depth of our knowledge and the amount of material we had amassed and researched. He did comment that DHB don't seem very popular; I wonder where he got that idea from!
We took Matthew for a quick walk along the seafront and down the pier. He seemed loathe to get on his train back to Newcastle so quickly - I think he would have enjoyed sampling the local pubs.!!
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Clearly this pressure group have done their homework which will not please DHB. Unfortunately they will bring in highly expensive consultants to overturn any decision that goes against them. They used a business consultancy to answer questions from the public on that link that the Captain put up then deleted. The first question was about compensation if the dredging caused more erosion in Deal, Walmer and Kingsdown. Like all the other answers to question they were in gobbledegook but the thrust was that if the MMO gave the OK then nobody would be compensated in the event of prob;ems arising.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,102
Howard.
Deleted? See post 32. It's still there on [U]my [/U]computer?
I don't do deletion anymore than I do apologies!
The only upshot of all the protests will be, that learned council up and down the country are rubbing their hands together at the earnings they might get if the decision goes to judicial review, and that at the end of the day, the works will go ahead, whilst the local opponents of modernity and progress can move on to their next Facebook Campaign feeling very very smug that they've managed to bugger DHB around to little effect, and knowing in their heart of hearts that the Captain was right yet again.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1266- Registered: 8 May 2014
- Posts: 381
Captain Haddock wrote:Howard.
Deleted? See post 32. It's still there on [U]my [/U]computer?
I don't do deletion anymore than I do apologies!
The only upshot of all the protests will be, that learned council up and down the country are rubbing their hands together at the earnings they might get if the decision goes to judicial review, and that at the end of the day, the works will go ahead, whilst the local opponents of modernity and progress can move on to their next Facebook Campaign feeling very very smug that they've managed to bugger DHB around to little effect, and knowing in their heart of hearts that the Captain was right yet again.
I don't recall any of the protests being anti modernity.
Jack of Hearts
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Not only are the sands good for our wildlife but it is the last resting place for many of our seaman and ships,it is like digging up one of our grave yards .So please do not go a head with taking any more way from the banks.
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Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Post 42. Ah yes, British justice at its finest - if I think I won't get the decision I want, I'll appeal as a matter of course (or in this case go for a JR).
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(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,102
Just back from a very pleasant evening at Dover College attending the Business Leaders' Dinner 2016 and listening to Richard Ashworth MEP with his tale of Project Fear Redux. (No, I don't know either. Presumably some mess up with the invitations and there is another Captain Haddock locally who is wondering why he was not invited since he is actually a 'business leader' and manufacturer of bespoke widgets rather than a retired sea captain!).
My sources there tell me that DHB expects the MMO license to be granted in November. Personally I'd be very surprised if the opposition goes for JR, but having read of Jarndyce V Jarndyce in Bleak House who knows? They will need deep pockets if they do!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
If they take more sand away from the Goodwin,the D.H.B. will even lose my support,I have been a supporter of the D,H,B for many years and when I was a cllr I would talk to the public about my support for them and why,but for what it is worth now ,I will stop giving them my support if they go a head with taking more of the sands ,we must help the wildlife out there and as I said also we must keep it as a grave yard to the many who have died in around the sands.
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Guest 1266- Registered: 8 May 2014
- Posts: 381
I think DHB should should swallow the extra cost of sourcing the aggregate further afield. There is strong opposition already but imagine if they start dredging which I think I read, would be 24/7 for several years. The press will have a field day and I wouldn't discount Greenpeace disrupting the Dover/Calais route.
Jack of Hearts
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
" I think I read, would be 24/7 for several years"
Jack, info on the periods proposed for dredging is available on the Dover Western Docks Revival FB page and within the 1500 page Environmental Impact Assessment report. Plus I've copied a relevant bit that describes the 24/7 misconception below.
1. Dredging will only take place during 12 of the 36 months
2. The dredger will be used 24/7 when operating. However it will only be dredging for nine hours in any 24 [rest of the time is transporting/discharging aggregate and returning]
3. The dredger will work on the Sands for a maximum of 1,500 hours out of a total of 26,280 [NOT dredging 94% of the time]
The proposed dredge cycle and timings are clearly identified in the Environmental Statement (Volume 1 Section 2.2.2). It should be noted, that the proposed dredge schedules will be a condition of the marine licence and will need to be adhered to.
If you have any further questions that need answering, please feel free to post them on the dedicated DWDR Facebook page.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Mr Wiggins as I said, all the years you was up in arms with the D,H,B, in your book they could do nothing right,now
that you are on their payroll you are supporting them.
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Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Hi Mr Vic. I opposed the private equity sale of the port and the actions that the DHB were then taking to facilitate that outcome. I also put forward viable alternative views and possible outcomes and was very public and open about it. It is incorrect to say or suggest that I ever indicated that the DHB could do nothing right - the only things that made it into the mainstream public domain and which were discussed and argued were the main points of contention. In fact, I frequently said that the managers and staff did a fantastic job. I am now an independent non-executive director of the board and am bound to speak and act in the best interests of the organisation, just as I am bound by collective responsibility to support the decisions of the board as a whole. That does not mean that I do not bring a different viewpoint into the boardroom and speak accordingly in the boardroom, its my job to bring an independent perspective and use my 30+ years of industry knowledge and experience into the boardroom and apply it for the benefit of the organisation and its stakeholders and that is what I do.
My post above on the Goodwins merely corrects an inaccuracy that has crept into the public domain and gives readers of this forum a pointer to a website where the DHB is answering questions and publishing updates on the license application and the development of the Western Docks.
I have always posted, when I see something that is clearly inaccurate, with the facts as published or measurable on the ground. Just as I did when inaccurate postings were made about the PoW and the possibility of it reopening along its full length, also the new distances that would open to the public with the creation of a Marina curve and new Marina pier.
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Guest 1266- Registered: 8 May 2014
- Posts: 381
Thanks for the information Mr Wiggins.
There was talk of you having a position at DHB as a community directory are you now fulfilling that position and if you are what are you doing to represent the community which has shown such strong objection to dredging the Goodwins?
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Jack of Hearts
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Hi Mr Heart. I am indeed now a non-executive director and member of the DHB selected from the community by the community panel that was appointed to short list and interview suitable candidates.
The application for a license to dredge marine aggregate from the Goodwin Sands is with the Marine Management Organisation and has been since before I joined the DHB. Objections to and questions about the license application are most appropriately directed to the Marine Management Organisation or the executive team at DHB via the DWDR FB page or directly to the contacts provided on the port's website at this time.
It would be inappropriate for me to comment on the content of boardroom discussions in a public arena, but all directors at the DHB are aware of the full extent and depth and content of the objections that have been raised by members of the community.
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Are you supporting the moving of the sand from the banks?or like most of the public in Dover against doing it? A yes will do if you are in support of the taking of the sand. Or a No if like the pubic do not agree that the sand should be taken?To Mr Wiggins
Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
Are the majority of people against it or just the vocal minority. I don't have an issue with the plan.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I do not know but all I can say is, it is a grave yard for many a seaman ,so if it was on land and they were going to dig up a grave yard with members of yours or mine family in it, would you support that ,sorry but I could not .Let them lie in pace in the ships they died on. I am being vocal because I have a great deal of feeling over it.+ It is home to 100s of wildlife that live there or come back year after year.it is there home would you like it done to your home .We can talk to save our homes but the wild life can not so we have to act and talk for them.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I very much doubt that the majority of people in the district are aware of the plans and the ones that do are of the opinion that what the Harbour Board wants they inevitably get.
Should the work be given the go ahead then things will change considerably, wildlife colonies that have been there for centuries losing their habitat, war graves and sea graves disturbed so that DHB can save a few bob on their vanity project.
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
The dead cannot stand up for them self we need to do it for them.As the post said above they are a war grave.
