Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
8 January 2011
12:2688161So why do it Barry,perhaps KCC want to see more accidents,the reason to save money is so they don't have to repair them when they get damaged by cars and rust away.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 676- Registered: 1 Jul 2008
- Posts: 521
8 January 2011
12:3188162John
Can you advise us how much is spent by KCC on repairs and maintinance of the said barriers
Million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Guest 665- Registered: 24 Mar 2008
- Posts: 345
8 January 2011
12:3488163Let me hazard a guess. It's probably because someone somewhere has done a risk assessment and in their infiintie wisdom come to the conclusion that a pedestrian is more likely to be injured by the rusty barrier than by a car, and therefore as the barriers are council's responsibiltiy they think it will be more costly to be sued than to remove the barriers. Risk assessment has therefore decided it is cheaper (for the council!) to remove them.
Question, what if a pedestrian is injured or killed in a place where a barrier has been removed? Who is liable then if it can be shown that the barrier could have prevented the injury or death?
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
8 January 2011
12:4188165Sorry Stewart ask Nigel I am sure he can get the numbers for you,I am not a KCC Cllr.......yet!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
8 January 2011
12:5288166To be fair to KCC for the moment, some of those barriers appear to be unnecessary e.g. outside the Eagle, outside MHK, at the top of Ladywell for example). Similarly there are places where barriers should be but are not (e.g. corner of Bridge St & Maison Dieu Road where yesterday I saw 3 cars mount the pavement because they were coming down Frith Road too fast).
Barry - you are right that in some cases these are there to protect pedestrians from themselves and there is therefore an argument that they could be removed, however there are places where they patently are needed to protect pedestrians from motorists who do not drive properly, thoughtfully, or with due care and consideration.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 January 2011
12:5988168i cannot see how politics comes into this, road safety is of concern to all.
having seen the list john has posted, it is quite staggering.
the roundabout york street/folkestone road stands out like a sore thumb, people will just jay walk across like they do when crossing priory street, the difference being that the cars go faster and the roads wider.
Guest 676- Registered: 1 Jul 2008
- Posts: 521
8 January 2011
13:0388170So we dont know how much is spent on repairs and maintinance, do any of you know the life span of the barriers? KCC have got to save money, by removing these barriers they will do just that.
Million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
8 January 2011
13:1688171I'm not sure what price one can put on a human life. I would hate to think that a 'removed barrier' could have saved a child or aged persons life. If it isreally down to funding surely the barriers should only be removed when it's no longer cost effective to repair not simply go on a mass tearing up of barriers some of which are still sound and safe.
This country is shot to pieces... we send millions to feed the poor help the blind tend the sick in India meanwhile the Indian Govt spend billions blowing up satellites in the vain attempt to enter the space race. Bloody crazy.
Meanwhile BarryW's argument of cotton wool society doesn't wash cos who would be the first agency to call in the event of his house being burgled...the Police...but why bother he is insured and his goods would in due course be replaced and the cops would probably be better served informing the family of a pedestrian killed by an errant driver who had mounted the pavement where once a barrier stood as a first line of protection.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
8 January 2011
13:1788172Stewart I have e-mailed Jacobs the contractor but they are out of office until Tuesday
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
8 January 2011
13:1988173Sorry John we posted at the same time.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 January 2011
13:3188174kent county council have already paid a company £.39037.00 to do an assessment of how much it would cost to tear down the barriers.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
8 January 2011
14:2088178More waste of money on a Council that is cutting and slashing! Remember it is our money!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
8 January 2011
16:1088183GaryC, yes traffic has increased a lot since my long ago childhood and as I said I was talking about too much street furniture I never mentioned removing any though, please no more signposts stick all those signs on an existing post.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
8 January 2011
16:2888187Howard is right, this is about safety and not about whom you vote for, or support politically.
BarryW.
The only person going over the top is you. No one is talking of putting in more barriers along every road or forcing people to cross roads via bridges. That's just a typical over the top reaction from you.
How is placing a safety barrier on a dangerous bend preventing said woman and children being run over, using excessive cotton wool and how can you construe that that would be classed as saving people from themselves?
Jan.
Totally with you on that one, far too many signposts.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
8 January 2011
19:4488256I've checked the information and here is the official explanation.
Jacobs UK Ltd has received a request from Kent Highway Services to complete a
Pedestrian Guardrail Assessment in Dover.
There is an increasing emphasis on improving the streetscape by removing street
clutter and providing better pedestrian accessibility whilst still maintaining road
safety. It is recognised that where pedestrian guard railing is badly sited or over
installed it not only alienates pedestrians but also looks unsightly, easily becomes
damaged which in turn leads to increased maintenance costs and complaints.
Guard railing can be the right solution when the objectives of installing it (and in the
right amount) are fully considered. The main purpose of guard railing is to improve
safety by trying to prevent pedestrians from crossing the road at an inappropriate
place or from straying into the road inadvertently.
Guard railing can also be used to offer some protection to pedestrians at locations where the path of large vehicles, such as buses and heavy goods vehicles, takes the vehicles close to the footway, sometimes overhanging it.
This report contains recommendations to retain, partially remove or wholly remove
pedestrian guard railing from 18 sites across Dover.
The assessments were conducted within an approximate 750metre (820yard) radius
(1 mile diameter) of the High Street to incorporate the main pedestrian
thoroughfares in the town centre (see figure 1).
Each site has been assessed by a fully qualified road safety auditor and a road
safety engineer. Records of each site will be maintained by the KHS Signs, Lines
and Barriers Asset Manager.
The surveys have allowed sufficient adjacent road space to be included; the exact
length of road surveyed to make up a site has been dictated by the existence of side
roads, major entrances / exits and the current extent of the existing guard railing.
Where appropriate the width of the carriageway and its arrangement into lanes has
been recorded as this relates to the degree of difficulty that people have in crossing.
The width of the available footway has also been taken and consideration given to
the effect the guard railing has on reducing the effective footway width.
Illustrated diagrams indicating pedestrian guardrail locations, any proposals to install
additional guardrail panels, the replacement of any damaged panels and to remove
or retain the guardrails have been included.
One of the reports is 44 pages long.
There are maps and diagrams of the areas and reasons why recommendations to remove the barriers are made.
Roger
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
8 January 2011
19:4888260well done joh keep up the good work
even rioght wing guzzler agrees with you
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
8 January 2011
21:0988274Can you post a link to the report Roger, so that some of us can consider the facts before launching into an emotional party-political tirade?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 January 2011
21:1588278an excellent resume from roger there.
with stuff like that i like to read through it a few times to pick out what has not been said rather than what has been said.
local and national government officers are very astute at putting their own spin on things.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
8 January 2011
21:1688279So are the forumites Howard.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 January 2011
21:1988280agreed peter but we do not have power over other peoples lives.
