Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
18 September 2010
18:5171481Bern I apologise if I offended you. I wasn't Catholic bashing at all, merely stating that as a mum and a decent human being I hate anyone, whatever religeon they are, if they abuse children in any way.
I respect all religeons, I'm CofE but my sister is Catholic, as is my best friend and several of my other friends. I don't like to hear any religeon insulted in any way. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and should be respected.
I admit that my post was rather flippant and I'm sorry for that, hope you'll forgive me.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
18 September 2010
19:1671483I can't bear a grudge to save my life!! It is a pity more aren't the same..........
On a broader plane, it is unfair to always say the word paedophile in the same sentence as the word Pope. There is no evidence that he has ever abused kids, and although there is no excuse for individual clerics who conspired with each other to conceal and deny real crimes and pain, there is also no excuse for abusing and insulting an entire religious group r the sins and omissions of others. If people took the time and trouble to look at the actual facts rather then respond with their own prejudice and emotions (however understandable) and listen to the tabloids, there is a wodge of evidence that indicates that, once this man had realised the reality of the abuse he acted swiftly. But unfortunately it was also quietly, and tabloids don't like quietly, they prefer foghorn look-at-me-doing-good-stuff retribution and brimstone stuff.
18 September 2010
20:4771503Not got a problem with Herr Pope, just the institutional paedophilia of the organisation he heads-up. For a problem as disturbing as this, whether we like it or not, most people want to see and hear the action being taken. Anything less increases the chance of folks believing a cover-up is in progress. And that is the case is it not?
18 September 2010
20:5871509That kind of flip innuendo (herr pope........all kids his age joined the Hitler Youth, it was mandatory. The fact is he went AWOL when things became obvious) is unnecessary and perpetuates the casual hatred. No one, no one at all, in their right minds, would condone the abuse. The important thing is that it is now being actioned, has been acknowledged, and there are opportunities to move on. Those adults who were abused kids need that opportunity - look at them, how sad they are. They deserve better than having their agony perpetuated and stoked by tabloid hysteria.
18 September 2010
21:1371518Well excuse me please, is the gentleman not German anymore? Is the formal address for an adult man in Germany no longer Herr? Bern, you are being a tad too sensitive methinks.
I agree about the tabloid hysteria, but you and I know that will be replaced with total indifference when something more exciting comes along. Fact is, whatever the press says or doesn't say, ordinary people find this behaviour absolutely abhorrent and want to see demonstrable action taken against those guilty of such. You can't hide that fact, even though in itself it may prove very distressing for the victims, and there seem to be plenty of those.
Finally and to be pedantic, sorry Bern, not all kids joined the Hitler Youth. Twins, Jewish and Gypsy kids were taken away for experimentation and extermination. Even some whose parents had converted to Catholicism years before Adolf came to power; they were denied help by the Vatican and consequently died in concentration camps. These things are unpleasant but true.
This guy is a new Pope and has a great opportuntiy to stamp his mark, not weasle around the world glorying in the clamour of those who worship him instead of their God. He needs to be firm, public, and fair.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 September 2010
21:1971523at the end of the day, the visit has been wildly successful, i have been hooked on skynews and news 24.
the coverage has been all encompassing, i have tried to view from a distant perspective as i have no strong views on religion either way.
my summing up is that a genial octagenarian has brought a lot of pleasure to our island, another 80,000 in hyde park today.
the antis are fronted by dr ian paisley and peter tatchell.
the former stated that he did not want a blessing from him!!
that is like me saying that i do not want a blessing from the chief rabbi.
the revolting tatchell wanted the visit stopped on human rights grounds, we already know about his bursting into canterbury cathedral on easter sunday and interrupting the archbishop of canterbury, note that he has never done the same in a synagogue or a mosque.
it seems to me that the simple answer is to have a live and let live philosophy.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
18 September 2010
21:2971524Jeez we're not still going on about the same thing. Ive been out all day and the first thing that strikes me is that you are repeating the same point ad nauseum Sid.
I think pages ago we all agreed that paedophilia is bad. Lets not put everyone else asleep. There is nobody arguing with that. I think we know now that the church is actioning the problem. I think progress is most certainly being made as anyone can see who is following the visit.
I think we have seen the pope do a much better visit that expected, and tackle issues and meet some of the unfortunate victims, which we as Catholics know about only too well as I said before. There is also much good happening. Dont ignore the good. Cementing relationships between churches, uniting concerns over aggressive atheism, uniting concerns over the loss of christian society and what replaces that, huge rallying with the mass faithful and non faithful, building relationships with both the Queen and the Government. So much positivety has ensued...which must be good for all society.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
22:0371536Things in life make me laugh more than most things on the box ever can. PaulB, you unintentionally done it for me with those first few lines above, about being out all day, and coming back to find the Pope still having a hard time. The Pope, The Two Face Vatican, God, The Papal, all in the top ten. I should think you`ll be frightened to go out tomorrow.
Nice picture above by the way, so that`s where you were?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
18 September 2010
22:1671537I was going to watch the news at 10 but I gave it up, it seems to be full of some sort of Nuremburg Rally.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
19 September 2010
00:1271540Jacqui, I am really disappointed that you felt, shall we say, "religiously bullied" by Bern to make an apology for your opinion. Let's face a startling fact here: People do indeed have the freedom to worship whatever belief system they see fit but as of this writing, I am aware of no laws or acts of parliament that prohibits me, you, or anyone else of criticizing or challenging religious belief systems, whether on moral, philosophical, or other grounds. At this time the Catholic church has very low credibility and is generally seen as an abominable system that has grown out of murder, torture, and fascistic rule which has all culminated in an entire population of child abusing personnel that remain safely holed-up in the system. The exact measure of truth in this view may be difficult to establish with accuracy but the issue is big and broad enough to generate a strong general feeling.
I completely understood your views, I agree with them, and you should stand up and feel proud that you expressed your convictions. You have shown yourself as a victim of the so-called "crime" of offending someone. Nobody has the right not to be offended. If your views offend someone then so be it. Under analysis, by offending someone you've been made to feel guilty, you've apologised, and you now probably feel a bit offended yourself. Your views MATTER Jacqui, say them and stick to them no matter what.
We do live in a world where political correctness is still optional rather than a legal requirement (not that you'd know it form the stifling, oppressive atmosphere we live in these days with so much fear of "offense" being caused) and so until such time that it is illegal, if we want to express a view that the Catholic church is full of kiddy fiddlers based on the information we have available to us then so be it.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
19 September 2010
06:3371547No Rick I dont think Bern was religiously bullying, on the contrary she in turn is being bullied for her religion. She was hopelessly outnumbered and trying to defend her faith and people are clearly getting a kind of very unpleasant and unsavoury glee from kicking Catholics and their beliefs.
I have to protect the members here who are Catholics because they are entitled to be Catholics in peace on Doverforum without being abused for it. I dont see why they should be offended over and over again. The point has been made over and over again about paedophiles, and I will try and make the point yet again that it was Catholics themselves who suffered this abysmal fate, for their faith, and yet continue as Catholics. We have members on hear who know about this first hand.
But being sillily lectured by others about how awful it is...well its just silly. We already know. And in some cases have already experienced it. We didnt need to read about it in a newspaper 30 years later.
I will now take steps so that the Catholic bashing wont continue. I have lingered for a long time so that everyone can have their say, but saying the same thing over and over again is clearly a desperate act to inflict a weird punishment on people who have already suffered. Beating Catholics with a big stick is not what we're about. You bashers have already had your pound of flesh.
We dont want anyone racially abused, abused for their sexual orientation, or abused for their religion on doverforum. I will say again that there has been a kind of unholy glee on show about kicking the Catholic church or catholics who are the church, particularly from one individual, with scant regard for how hurtful it can be to our members who are Catholics and without any reference to the good side of the visit or the work done and being done. Obviously asking people to rein themselves in doesnt work.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
19 September 2010
07:3471550PaulB
There are so many threads covering this point that it's now becoming off putting logging on only to read a tirade of abuse.
What ever happened to that great 'club' feeling that the DF once did so well.
Shame really.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
19 September 2010
07:3771551I'll say something positive about the Pope. I'm both anti royalist and an atheist.
At least the Pope gets elected, we're stuck with our shower.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
19 September 2010
09:3871554marek
post 152 sums it up for me, i get tensed up before logging in on this and another similar thread.
we are a club indeed.
the people that read but do not post will be put off applying for membership if they feel that they will be attacked if they say anything.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
19 September 2010
10:0171555Howard
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
19 September 2010
10:1871556I think its time to move on everyone has their opinions, but all said and done the visit by the Pope has gone better than thought and people of all religions wanted to see him.
I for one have watched some of his visit.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
19 September 2010
11:2671559#154 Howard, member`s on here are attacked all the time on various political threads, and one member has gone because of it. Another poor member was endlessly battered on here over the toilet issue a while back. The similar thread you mentioned is of course my one, but it was on an entirely different issue and nothing to do with the pope, which is why I started it, and requested a quiet discussion. I`ve never used the word catholic or protestant on here ever, as they`re both popular religion`s and I`m not aggressive to one or the other, except when there`s an interesting article which I could start a topic on and get an interesting discussion going without any mud slinging. Anyway, let`s follow Jan above and move on. It`s a great forum, and I`m sure anyone looking in would find it much more interesting than any soap on the box could offer.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
19 September 2010
17:4171577If this thread is to end, here is a positive note. Even though I'm an athiest (more of a 'live and let live' variety than aggressive), the words of Vatican astronomer Brother Guy Consulmagno were like a breath of fresh air:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8009299/Pope-Benedict-XVIs-astronomer-the-Catholic-Church-welcomes-aliens.html
Damning of Intelligent Design and Creationism, and acknowledging the potential existence of aliens. There do indeed to seem to be a few progessive voices in the Vatican!
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
19 September 2010
17:4971578COLIN
I think its fair to say this subject got a good airing
with all types of view
it did get a little to personal at times
and some who give the impression they believe in freedoms
actually try to argue to keep the pope out of GB
bUT VIEWS THEY ALL are
now lets clear the decks and start some new topics
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
19 September 2010
18:0571585Sorry KEITH, I don`t know what you`re talking about, I`ve just said what you`ve just said above about moving on. I haven`t been critical of the pope on here, you`d better read all the postings again mate. I haven`t been personal to anybody!!
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
email: dover7@msn.com