15 September 2010
22:0471035Has anyone ever seen the documentary Deliver Us From Evil? I'd love to see it but it is hard to get hold of.
"Over 100,000 victims of clergy sexual abuse have come forward in the United States alone"
"Since 1950, sexual abuse has cost to the US Catholic Church over one billion dollars in legal settlements and expenses"
"Most countries are just beginning to report clergy abuse"
"Pope Benedict XVI was accused of conspiracy to cover up sexual abuse in the United States. At the Vatican's request, President George W. Bush granted the pope immunity from prosecution"
http://www.deliverusfromevilthemovie.com (it can also be found on IMDB)
I think that whatever we're told, the real truth is that none of us really understands the sheer scale of this thing. My original posting (which it seems only one or two people found offensive) seems to be closer to the truth than even I dared to realize. For those who did miss it, I posted a photo of the current Pope and labeled the photo as "Leader of one of the biggest pedophile rings in the world". The more I look into it, the more it just confirms and reconfirms itself. If you found my original posting offensive then bloody shame on you! Perhaps you'll spare a thought for the seemingly endless numbers of children that have been systematically raped and their abusers institutionally protected even to this very day by a truly vile "old boys club" of perverts and deluded hypocrites.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 September 2010
22:0571037excellent post from bern, we seem to forget that most abused children are the victims of their immediate family.
usually heterosexual males.
at the moment is the left handers getting a kicking, next time maybe the scout movement or the teaching profession.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
15 September 2010
22:0871039BBC headlines about the Popes advisor saying we are a "third world country".
Not exactly tactful was he and shows what the Vatican thinks of the UK, never mind how the rest of the Vatican tries to smooth things over, the damage has been done.
Please remember I am not remotely religious so have no axe to grind.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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15 September 2010
22:2171044Well I have often wondered just how long it would be before some one rumbled us and expressed the opinion that we are a third world country.
I think it rather sad that cardinal Walter Casper has suddenly taken ill after his exposee over our failing society.
I trust that he will go on to give us an honest opinion on the state of the catholic church rather than indulge himself by insulting our country.
I would advise him to stick to his chosen profession and not to dabble in things that he knows nothing about.
Would it be a coincidence that this is a german cardinal giving an interview to a german magazine??
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
15 September 2010
23:4071051Not sure that this continued attack against the RC church is warranted also had this discussion been about Jews the forum would have been accused of being anti-semetic.
Secondly as I cannot prove there is a God nor can anyone on here disprove it.
Finally move on and lets discuss wine,women and rock n roll.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
15 September 2010
23:5171052To be fair to the Kraut Cardinal with the big mouth and no brain, he was alluding to the amount of ethnic minority staff encountered when arriving in the UK by air. As any regular user of our airports and their immigration and passnger handling services will confirm, he is actually right, it does look as though one has arrived in a third world country.
If the truth hurts we only have our beloved immigration policy to blame.
16 September 2010
00:1171058"Not sure that this continued attack against the RC church is warranted" - fine, you're obviously not that bothered that thousands of children were abused. Maybe we should give Gary Glitter a break too.
"had this discussion been about Jews the forum would have been accused of being anti-semetic" - to my knowledge, Jews don't have a long record of child abuse or sheltering child abusers. I'm no expert on the Jewish faith but as far as I'm concerned they are responsible for a large degree of Hollywood's movie output - Jews are cool !!!
16 September 2010
00:1871060Tell that to the Palestinians!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
16 September 2010
01:4171062Rick
No-one on the right mind would condone the actions of any section of society that abuses any other human being whether it be of the vunerable,the young ,the aged or less abled. Pauk Gadd abused kids but it doesn't mean that all male adults are child molesters in the same way not all RC Priests are paedophiles. so don't please accuse me of "not being bothered that thousands of children were abused" That comment does not become a man of your intellect.
The continuing 'abuse' of catholics on this thread is somewhat distasteful. As for Jews,Muslims or CofE members not being abusers I have no idea but it unfortunately happens all too often in every section of todays society.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 September 2010
07:3271065Ah yes this thread has turned out to be a bit unfortunate and a bit disappointing.
We have the opportunity at this time for a bit of a good discussion but we are not getting it here. The whole thread is just slagging off Catholics and Marek is right, if it was about Jews, we would be closed down.
Sid if you could tone down the rabid rhetoric it might help. It might leave some room for genuine debate. The insultingly obvious wind ups are not going to get any useful responses at all, so the discussion wont widen. It kills it stone dead. Make some genuine posts and people will respond. Rabid rhetoric is easy. Good discussion is much harder.
If slagging Catholics off is all we aspire to then I suppose fair enough...but I would have thought a bit of open discussion that included all views would be a better prospect. That will only happen if those with opposing views see any point in responding.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
16 September 2010
08:2471070Because of the subject I don't think you will get a reasonable debate as it's not a reasonable debate on the national media.
Whatever the issue, he's here and we should do what we can to maximise concerns we may have.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 September 2010
09:2171076just been reading the interview with the cardinal.
i saw "aggressive atheism" and thought he hasn't even met rick yet, i can understand his reference to us being "a third world country", probably had galloping gut rot from a dodgy kebab on his last visit.
16 September 2010
09:3071080Posts #66 and #68 are classe as "rabid rhetoric" are they? Jeez, some are a bit over-sensitive.
Post #72, Rick is passionate not aggressive. Subtle difference.
Watched a documentary yesterday giving a behind the scenes look at the Vatican. Ignoring the magnificnt architecture and artwork, there are a lot of interesting, non-religious jobs going on in that place. There was also some filming of the Pope's working day and private moments. If they ever considererd a way to enhance this latest bloke's image it would be to show this documentry at peak time. He appeared to be humble and normal, with that zip of German efficiency about him too.
Sadly, when you looked at all the croney faces around him, you started to think about how safe the altar boys were.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 September 2010
09:4971087No I dont think over-sensistive Sid as I enjoy a good debate for and against Catholics as I havent had all that happy a time myself in their hands, as I think Ive explained in previous times..but insulting the other guys with the kind of rhetoric you are using is not much use overall. It puts other people off bothering to post as I know from experience. I think reasoned debate could be good.
But generally re The Paedophile situation. Well nobody for a moment would consider over-looking this. But it must be remembered and I think its often forgotten..that Catholics themselves were the victims. So preaching to the victims about the awfulness of paedophiles is like telling your grandmother how to suck eggs. We know about it only too well.
I will just make the point again as its regularly forgotten...Catholic kids of my era and later suffered at the hands of these Catholic evil doers in schools, boarding schools, in general life, and had no way out, no escape clause. The Catholics were the victims.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
16 September 2010
10:3271097Its starting to look like too many people have too much time on their hands
Go do something useful for your fellow man instead and stop repeating everything over and over again. Most people are bright enough to get your point first time around and all decent human beings deplore child abuse. I am a Catholic and I intend to enjoy the Popes visit to the UK.
16 September 2010
11:3271098#45
One more vote for the non existence of God.
(and that's from a fully paid up member of Friends of Kent Churches and Friends of Canterbury Cathedral !)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 September 2010
11:3671099you don't take any chances bob.
i bet you invite the jehovah's witnesses in for a cup of tea and two hour long chat about religion.
16 September 2010
11:4271103Like it or not Christianity has been responsible for some of the most sublime and transcendental music and writing ever.
Evensong in Canterbury Cathedral is about as good as it gets on this planet!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
16 September 2010
13:4771114Rick, although there have been many scandals on the part od individuals within the Catholic church over the centuries, I personally find it very irritating when people harp on and on equiperating this church to a system of pedophiles. It is infact slander! The catholic church does not teach nor encourage such conduct.
Personally I would like to present different Church's views on Religion and their doctrines, and my views, and discuss, also outline what can be and what cannot be from a biblical point of view, and listen to other peoples' views on religion and doctrines. but if an inteligent discussion is derailed from the start with the accusation that: 'these and those are all pedophiles', it makes me really anoyed, and I find it a waste if intellect.
Any intelligent discussion is decapitated from the start, with such allegations.
I also find it vile to suggest that Bibles should be burnt!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
16 September 2010
14:0571118I've been reading a book on the original Celtic Church in Britain, and have two more such books to read. officially they were alligned to Rome, but officially they were also alligned to the Orthodox Church, as in those days the scism between Rome and Costantinopoli was still not complete.
Yet there were ways of Church liturgy and particulars of Faith that the Celtic British held dear but were not always in line with Rome's official edits and practises.
Only in the 12th century did Ireland actually come in line with Rome's doctrines, after Henry II of England was invited by a local Irish leader to intervene against his rivals. Henry had the backing of the pope, who was English and had given him 20 years earlier a bolla allowing him to get involved in Ireland's Church affairs.
This intervention triggered off centuries of confrontation in Ireland between Irish catholics and English catholics, and later between Irish catholics and English and Scottish Puritans/Calvinists and CE (Church of England). However, the root of it all (talking of the religious differences not ethnic) was Rome's intervention to change the local Irish Celtic practises of Christian Faith and allign them to those of the Vatican!