howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
what many people cannot understand(me included) is why dave is taking this bullying approach to his back benchers.
any result is not binding anyway, he could simply have allowed members to let off steam and everyone woud have been happy.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the question is simple either we are in fully in,out as an indiependant country,or dont give a damm.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
From the day Flashman became Leader of the Conservatives he has kick the subject into the very long grass.
Fooling a few may be, but not the many.
He knows we need to be in Europe for many many reasons, one being they are the manufacturing arm we have reliquished for decades.
Germany and France have stepped up to the plate.
The piper always calls the tune!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
This is a picture of Charlie Elphicke taking part in the debate a few minutes ago..
I grappled around for a camera so missed the bulk of what he said apart from
"...the people of Dover will be pleased to see the Prime Minister standing up to the French" This bit of statement of course in reference to the spat between the PM and Mr Sarkozy.
* *
See post 70 on the previous page for Charlie's extended letter to UKIP on this topic.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I agree with Howard's comment above that if the MPs weren't whipped, they could vote how they wish, their constituents wouldn't think they're cowards and we would just carry on.
My (personal, not political) view is that we should leave the EU as soon as is practical; I voted to stay in because I was told it was for trading, I wasn't advised it would lead to a federal europe and that non-elected beaurocrats would be making decisions on our behalf, or telling us what we can do on immigration, benefits, judical decisions and many other things, including the enormous cost.
Roger
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Why does the MP of Dover keep saying The public of Dover will be please at this or that,he has never asked the Public of Dover what it wants.
,He said it at Westminster over the port, now he is saying it over the EU, and france.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alexander - the Libdems had their support for a yes/no vote in their manifesto. The vote today is not on a simple yes/no vote. Do find out what is going on.
UKIP really are dumb playing right into the LibDems hands time after time.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Roger - I campaigned for a Yes vote in that referendum and I am ashamed to say so. The No campaign did say that the Treaty would involve an ever increasing reduction in our ability to govern ourselves and they were right on every point in that campaign. We were all lied to by the pro EEC establishment. Interestingly the feeling of betrayal I feel applies to most of those who fought for a Yes vote back in 1975 serving on the Yes campaign committee including its chairman... who would now have us out of this mess.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
A few minutes ago there was an intervention in Mr Hague's speech in this debate..from the MP in whose constituency the Luton Van factory is. This business as you will remember was in a total state of collapse last year..with the prospects of huge job losses, the death of another old british company was imminent.
It was saved from extinction by Renault France.
The constituency MP said an intervention of this nature by Renault was unlikely to happen in the future to save British companies... if we were outside the EU.
Mr Hague agreed and stated, and not a lot of people know this...
"the motor industry would be particularly affected, the tariff for being outside the EU trading block would be £1Billion pounds a year "
Not something I knew but worth while rememberng when people tell you there is no price to pay for pulling out of the EU. It would finish the motor industry here..including overseas giants Honda, Nissan and so on, from trading here. A lot of jobs there.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Vic is right, MP Carlie Elphicke didn't ask us if we want in or out of the EU, if we want Dover Port privatised or not.
Neil Wiggins asked us if we want one or another form of Dover Port privatisation. Charlie then goes to Parliament and claims that he is speaking for all Dover. He's not!
Another example is Whitfield. Charlie claimed he would speak for the vast majority of us concerned when we said no to it, but to me it seems that he didn't, and that the plans for building are just going ahead to the last brick.
hes is speaking for me I asked paulb weeks ago if he would put a pole on here to just see were the people stood, I really hope we get the REF and get out, then all those euro mps will be out of work and saving us billions. The people of this country are not stupid we elect this Government and when the people speak they should take notice instead of black mailing us with it will loose jobs for this country, as one MP said to day we have talked about Europe for years and what have we done Nothing. country's will still trade with us and maybe more of them if we are out they will see we have stood up to these people who don't know us but keep making laws they want us to follow. I say NO More
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
111 MPs voted for the referendum, of which about 80 are Tory.
That means another 31 also voted in favour, presumably Labour.
So PM Cameron has been defied!
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Our MP Mr Charlie Elphicke,is looking after himself,He wants to get up the ladder in his own party,sorry but that is the way it is looking.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Charlie was not among those who voted for a referendum on the EU.
So now we all know, if you want out of the EU, Mr. Elphicke voted against a referendum. Hope all remember this at the next G.E.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alexander -
1/ the vote was about a referendum giving three choices, not just an in/out and as I have said voting against this silly referendum does not mean that you are pro-EU or against leaving and to suggest otherwise is just demonstrating an ignorance of politics.
2/ Daft as this motion was and right they were, those who voted against it, it nevertheless has served a useful purpose. I have said for years that the Conservative Party is increasingly ant-EU and if the government payroll were taken into account along with the use of the whip the vast majority of Conservative MPs would support a fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with the EU. The pro-EU element in the Party is down to a small rump and it is a rump that will get ever smaller. It sets a marker down for the governments attitude to the EU and there will be more severe limits on how much they suck up to the LDs on the issue for this parliament.
Consequently an overall Conservative majority at the next election will certainly be paving the way for our negotiated exit from the EU with the results of that renegotiation being put to a referendum, the sensible way round. Make no mistake a renegotiation will result in our exit and our membership of what we want, a free trade block only.
Cameron was right when he said a new renegotiated relationship is years away, that was being refreshingly honest taking into account today's political reality.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PaulB - William Hague should be ashamed of himself. He was wrong and said that only to fit the needs of the debate - there would be no tarrifs raised against the UK if exited from the EU as it would cost the EU more than it would cost us. On leaving the EU we would just have to make the UK more attractive to inward investors with business freed from the 'Social Chapter' and the bulk of the beaurocratic balls that goes with EU membership. The UK could be to the EU what Hong Kong was once to China and it could have the same effect on the EU as Hong Kong had on China. That would be good for the whole world.
Well sorry Ukip get my vote every time from now on none of our MPs Charlie voted against the Government Knowing full well many people want out, None of our Politicians have any balls so when the EU drag us down and they will don't any of you come begging for our help Gutless Wonders. And labor who are supposed to be on the peoples side well would not through a cup of water on you if you were on fire.someone must be building a block of flats up some Masters backside. And yes I will Remember this at next GE. you had your chance Charlie and blow it.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Barry
I think maybe there are lessons to be learned from this small non EU member state island as the financial markets here are booming and cashing in from the eurozone crisis as many overseas institutions consider Jersey as a safe haven for business. Maybe the UK could adopt similar methods if free from EU regulations and red tape.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Sorry Alan - but if UKIP had their way we would be condemned to membership of the EU for ever more. Their tactics are simply idiotic and counter productive. I doubt that that party's leadership has two brain cells to rub together and all they have ever achieved as a practical effect is to boost the pro-Europeans.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Marek - you are correct in respect of all aspects of the economy and not just finance.
