howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
apparently all three party leaders are putting intense pressure on their members to vote against, not a good day for democracy.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
A SkyNews poll shows today that 84% of people want a referendum on the EU.
Following the Pledge, many people have emailed their local MP asking for a referendum. Whatever happens Monday at the Commons, it will make history. It could alienate Parliament from the masses, or see a split in the Coalition and in the Tory Party.
It will be extremely interesting what happens after Monday, because by now the vast majority of people here want out of the EU.
Each month the percentage increases.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,thats common knoledge,but question which goverment will give us the chance to vote.the odds of this goverment a referendum is about 100/1 against us.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
As I said UKIP are asking members to turnout on Monday,I can not make it,but I hope some will go from Dover.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Vic here is the latest UKIP Missive....as sent on to me..Rallying the troops.
********************************
Mass Lobby of Parliament
MONDAY 24 October, from 12.00
The debate will go on all afternoon, and the vote could come in any time between 5.00pm and 8.00pm.
Meeting point: College Green (lawn opposite the House of Lords).
We will be providing UKIP branded banners to ensure that it is clear to TV audiences (and MPs) that people from UKIP branches all over the country have come to add weight to the call for a Vote for Democracy. Please let me know TOMORROW where your people will be coming from, so we can make the appropriate banners, eg UKIP Chelmsford Branch say Give Us Our Referendum.
I will also shortly be sending you separately an email to send on to members, friends, contacts and indeed everyone who cares about our democracy and might wish to support us at this crucial moment in our history.
Our members have been waiting a long time for this moment. Let's show the MPs, and the media, that they must give us a Referendum on the EU.
Regards, Steve
--
Stephen Crowther, Executive Chairman, UK Independence Party
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Yes Paul I was hoping you would get it.Thank you for puting it up.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
things are looking grim for dave, 60 honourable members have promised to defy the party whip, at least one is a junior government minister that will put his principles before his ambitions.
could be that vic and his party will be breaking open the champagne on monday.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
LOL - will they be celebrating if they get their way, a in/out referendum and we end up stuck in the EU for a generation. UKIP are simply bonkers.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
my understanding is that the vote would not be legally binding and the date is not set in stone either.
surely dave would do better to go along with it and then deciding when the time is right to have a referendum?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry, the people Howard refers to in post 47 are Tory MPs, not UKIP members. You should restate your words and call these Tory Members of Parliament bonkers, if that is what you feel about them.
It's clear to see that you do not speak for all the Tory MPs when you say that Parliament should vote against a referendum on the EU.
It's becoming clearer, as I recently stated, that there will soon be a split in the Tory Party, and personally I see an alliance coming between one section of the Conservative Party and UKIP.
It has been my view for a long time that we will see one day a government coalition of UKIP and Conservatives, and this will be after the next General Election. Only one part of the Tories will be in this coalition, those who are for straight forward sincerity and not for prolonging the agony for years, and years, and years...
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
George Eustace MP - whose girlfriend works for Charlie, some of you will have met her, has tabled an amendment for Monday.
"""This House calls upon the government to publish a White Paper during the next session of Parliament setting out the powers and competences that the government would seek to repatriate from the EU, to commence the renegotiation of Britain's relationship with the EU, and to put the outcome of those negotiations to a national referendum."""
The problem with this amendment is the LibDems, they are totally opposed to this and they regard this as the worse possible motion, they are very happy for an in/out referendum and, of course, happy for a vote in favour of membership of the EU, but they will fight tooth and nail against the Eustace amendment. They do not want a renegotiation and want to close down the EU as an issue and lock us into the organisation forever by getting the referendum they know they will win after using their lies and scare tactics.
65 Conservative MPs, around a third of Conservative MPs and over 40% of backbenchers are showing there opposition to the EU by supporting the motion and there are a lot more who will not play their hand, not to mention Ministers. On a totally free vote I believe that a significant majority of Conservatives would support a position of renegotiation to achieve a Swiss style relationship with the EU.
The way forward though is not by support of the bill before the House though there is no harm in demonstrating the strength of feeling on the issue as, I believe these MPs understand. The vote will be different and showing their feelings will be enough for most at this stage setting down markers.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
all this is getting out of hand,lets have a simple forum vote.
what should the uk goverment do about the euroup situation.
a, stay in and intergrate.
b,get out and take our chances.
c,have the euro for currency.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that bit from mr eustace sounds like soething out of "yes minister".
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Brian, c).
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
alexander
im neither pro nor anti the EU but without doubt our barryw has always been anti EU and wants out.
but he always said its about timing and to lose such a vote in the way ukip wants thus putting the whole issue keeping us in the EU for many years to come.
the anti eu brigade are not convinced they can win the argument of getting out as yet, and it would be suicidal for them to lose the vote.
the rebels will all come into line closer to the vote once the whips have got to them
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Keith, the 60 Tory MPs who are not following Camers on the issue of the EU referendum will also have heard the views of their constituents, of those who contacted them, for example taking advantage of the Pledge, which promised to bring the public opinion on an EU referendum to the attention of local MPs.
When Barry talks of timig, he takes into account his determination to resist bankruptcy for many, many years, assuming that the EU will still be there for that long.
However, many other people do not have the financial reserves to hold out for so long, to endure more and more suffering, and that just about explains at least half of it.
Maybe you should consider, Keith, that many a Tory MP would lose their constituents' vote if they voted against the EU referendum on Monday, so by voting in favour, they are doing a sensible thing.
If they followed Barry's advice, they would vote for their own electoral downfall.
As I've already said, the Tory Party is about to split, Camers is done!
We of UKIP do not believe in a barbaric continuing infliction of suffering on the People, mercilessly waiting for "the right time" while people cry out for an end to the mad policies of Labour and left wing Camers.
We don't call day "night", or night "day".
If Barry got his way, the whole Tory Party would collapse soon, but because a number of MPs are not cynically trying to impose more needless suffering on the People, they will vote for a referendum, and so-by retain their electorate.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
alexander;
in the real world, many of those 60 who say they will rebel will be whipped into line
thats the real reason for daves return.
i share your view alexander the tory party is splitting apart, but thats over more than just the E.U issue
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Keith, if they allow themselves to be whipped into line, then they will lose their electorate.
However, a whip in Parliament means, if it is a three line whip - that the MPs of the particular party that imposes the whip MUST attend at the vote and take part in it, however it doesn't mean that they MUST vote as the Party prescribes. They can also vote against the imposed guidelines.
Otherwise it would be a tyranny.
Quite right, Keith, the Tory Party is splitting apart, for various reasons. Col. Dave will be democratically dismissed, in no uncertain terms, and he will possibly join T. Blair and become an adviser to other governments
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
b)
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
But Alex that happens to all PM's in the end-doesn't matter who. By the same token there is no need to force the dismantling of our membership of the EU-it will just collapse all by itself in the not too distant future. One thing we have to do is sort out the billions of grant aid stashed away which nobody seems able to access except in mealy mouthed dribs and drabs-and grab our fair share! I guess to push things along a bit we could get Nigel to scream 'WHO ARE YOU?' at all those dodgy continental MEP's,frighten their pants off and get them to clear off back to Ripoffsvania or wherever, simaulltaneously freezing their sleazy expense accounts.
Never give up...