Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
9 January 2010
14:2036940I can and have confirmed and I checked with my group this has never been tabled anywhere,so we made sure it got called in at Scruity,the other thing is you pay your Council Tax from April to April for the years budget so how come 9 mths into the Council financial year when the money has been collected does what you paid for shut.Now if the Town Council take them over your Town Council rates which were going to be 0% will be at a quess 10 to 20% increase.Walmer as Cllr Watkins (pointed out I am not a resident of)will be 40% increase in the Parish Council rates.Yes as Cllr Watkins and Cllr Nicholas has pointed out are not capped,so a decision made at the District Council will push up your Parish/Town precept.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 January 2010
14:3236942john
people are only interested in the final figure on their councl tax bill.
most of us do not even know what a precept is.
Unregistered User
9 January 2010
16:4636950Totally concur with Howard, it is how much you pay at the end of the day that matters not who provides the service. That is what the rest of the District have done in making their decisions and it has been done without politics being involved .
If DDC remove these sums from their budget, if DTC then add them it costs the public no more. Just a shift in budget. Dover will only pay for their toilets as will Deal , Sandwich, St Margaret's , Asn etc.
This way the services remain as has been recognised by the other Towns & Parishes. Local choices.
It's that simple.
Unregistered User
9 January 2010
17:0036952JHG ,
You are out of date with your budget assumptions and how budgets are put together. They are delivered on Medium Term Plans over a three yeay cycle and cross financial years.
You also need to take into account changes in Council decision making. Executive decisions taken by officers without reference to Cllrs.
That is the legacy of present local government systems implemented by your party when in power.
Your government , your system.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2010
17:3836956PAULW
Hold back boyo, lets get a few FACTS in here(blimey mate, sure you don't want them to get in the way)
Firstly This was as you say a decision made by one cllr no other than NIGEL COLLOR with no consultation with any public, something Nigel has always indicated he believed in public participation.
gets in a position of control and does the opposite and sadly for him hes been found out.
Secondly
The cabinet system put in by a Labour govt agreed but at no point opposed by you or your party, so lets get it right,
Its the worst thing that ever happened to ;local govt and I warned against it to the then labour leader, and i do not support it.
Nigel has shown just how UNDEMOCRATIC it can be
still paulw im sure your not worried about facts, they get in your way
Unregistered User
9 January 2010
17:5336958I distinctly remember voting against the system Keith and supporting the committee system, did you?
Not supporting it does not mean you voted against it. I'm sure you did as with the majority of Labour votes.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
9 January 2010
17:5436959The Public looes in the high St should have never been closed in the first place Cllr Collor should go and go now,and the looes open up again to the public and then the two council s can sort it out beween them what ever way it goes it is the public than will pick up the bill,so open them up again.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
9 January 2010
18:3936964I quite agree Vic, Cllr. Collor made the decision to close them without any form of consultation and with a total disregard for the public, he should resign. He hasn't even had the decency to put up a defence of his actions, maybe he thinks he is superior than us mere mortals.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 January 2010
18:5236966i doubt whether nigel will come on here for some time dave.
no one will listen to his arguments anyway, the lynch mob is in power.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 January 2010
19:1436969it seems that we have all got hot under the collor,its time to have a flush aproach to the problem.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
9 January 2010
19:1636970No Howard no lynch mob,I have commented on the front page,I as a Councillor want to know who made the decision,according to Paul W,it was a collective decision if so where is it in my Council Papers,because it is not there.Where in Cabinet was it made,it wasn't because we have observers there.
So who,where and when was that decision made and as it must be done in public for the sake of democracy.Or as I was told by an officer at the Council it was Nigel Coller's decision.Now I won't call for Nigel's head that is a personal decision if not down to the electorate next year.
If it was made by Cabinet which I doubt,then they should all think about thier positions,if it was made by the leader....well....so much for democrasy,the toilets at Maison Dieu are on the edge of my ward,the ones at Buckland Bridge by my house like every Dovorian I have a right to know.You can blame DTC the Goverment and uncle Tom Cobberly,we want the toilets open and they have been run since the reorganisation of Local Goverment by DDC,so to say we don't want to run them now is not on.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 January 2010
20:5636982i agree with most of what you say john, am a little concerned that a thread concentrates just on "taking a pop" at one individual whilst the issue of closed conveniences has turned into a political football.
the public are really not bothered who supplies the facilities.
we know that other town and parish councils have not had a problem with the district council over this issue.
i realise that you are not a town councillor anymore, but do you not think that our town council should contact the others to see how theres has worked out?
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
9 January 2010
22:1136998Perhaps Howard,I know that is a typical politicians answer and I am not a typical politician,but if you 'give' away something like a toilet which will cost thousands of £'s then to make the bitter pill sweeter then give something that pays.Right next to the toilets is the Town Hall Car Park,let the Town Council have the receipts from that to offset the cost of the toilets.
In Sandwich the toilets at the Quay were given away with a golden handshake which of the top of my head was £30,000.This would pay for an attendant to man it.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
10 January 2010
08:4137007It can't work like that John, it's not a case of this will cost the Town Council so much, so give us some income to off-set it.
The Town Council's money only comes from the residents, no where else, so if the District are not going to charge the residents any more and the Town Council are, what's the difference to the residents ? none, none at all.
It is about devolution of responsibilities and how each Town (and Town Councillor) handles it; some can see the benefits and act responsibly, others don't.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
09:2837010going to be an interesting meeting, must get myself down there.
I don't know to much about town council finances, would be interesting to get a view from town cllrs if they share Rogers views.
Sure it cant be that simple.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
09:3937012What shouldnt be missed is the point on decision making.
One individual (our Nigel) who's honeymoon period appears to be over over, who used to come on here saying how much he believed in peoples views, and public consultation, decided on this issue to totally ignore everyone and close the toilets.
As Barryw says you could call that clear leadership, or you could call it outright distaste of peoples views and democracy, I know the one i choose.
Whilst this decision is one of controversy, if Nigels happy to ignore people on such a big issue as this one, what else will he ignore us with and effect our lives?
This is not just about the toilets, its about decisiuon making in general.
On a very small point paulw indicates he voted against cabinet system which is incorrect, and certainly spoke against the committee system the cabinet replaced, i recall his speech where he and others stated the committee system was slow and held up decisions, at the time many cllrs supported that line, even the labour group at the time whom i warned of the future and how cabinet could destroy faith in democracy and decision making.
I take no joy in saying i told you so
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
10 January 2010
10:3137017I believe there are two issuies here .The closure of Toilets and decision making .For many years I have seen the unfairness of double rating and from some comments on here some people donot understand this and I shall not enlighten further .What to me and I agree with Keith is the decisiom making .
Nowhere can it be found in writing how this deciosion was made .The budgets were set for 20009 /2010 and there are still three months to go in thisfinancial year .
There was no ugency decision made or delegated decision .All councilloras see these .This paperork has to be signed in some instances by The Chairman of the Council and the Chairman of Scrutiny .I have signed enough of these in my time so I do know the proceedure .
What we are seeking is the truth how come this decision was made ?
Paul has posted that Cabinet make collective decisions and we should not blame an individual well tell me this when there is glory attached such as one man alone got the High Speed train Link or the quality bus partnership one person takes the glory?Now a decision which is not popular is made this said person cannot take the blame .
I said back on page one or two Nigel be a man and come on here .
I shared responsibility with Nigel when I was community and I and officers know when the going got tough it was me who took the flack .I shall not go into detail but those of you who are councillors know .
The toilets should be reopened now, the equipment is still in those at Maison Diue but sadly not at buckland bridge .
10 January 2010
12:2037024The word "allegedly" is a useful one...............
But until we have some clarity I guess we will continue to make some assumptions.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 January 2010
12:2237026i put this down to double standerds,say one thing mean another.harsh but true.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
10 January 2010
12:2237027This might be mis-understanding you Sue, but are you saying that the toilets, cisterns, wash basins etc. have already been taken out of the Buckland Bridge toilets ?
If they're locked up, how do you know this ?
Re-opening toilets is one thing, re-equipping them is another.
Roger