Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
10 January 2010
12:4837031Over 2000 hits and nine pages of comments. It's interesting what exercises the people of Dover isn't it? I don't think the Big Screen generated this level of interest nor the proposed changes to the seafront!
Mark
10 January 2010
13:1337033I think it is as much about the process as about the loo! It is clearly outrageous that the loos have been closed, no question about that. A decent town needs decent loos, especially one on the seafront with a major port and tourism issues. That should really go without saying.........But I think we are at our limit with the poor communication from the elected paid reps and the other officials who are charged with managing Dover. There has been much talk on these forums since I joined about the level of competence of the authorities, and about thelevels of engagement. It feels as if many of us have reached the end point and this crass move has tipped the balance. It is fabulous that there are 9 (NINE!!!!) pages of posts about it. But it about more than just the loo..........................
I predict a riot.....?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 January 2010
14:0437041susan refers to double rating, it has been made clear that no such issue exists with regard to the conveniences.
best to get that clarified.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
10 January 2010
14:4137054I don't actually understand what double rating is, and to be perfectly frank I don't care; I suspect that it's a smoke screen put out by those trying to deflect from the main issue. The fact remains that with just a modicum of will and co-operation, there was no need to close the toilets at all.
The fact that they were done so brings shame on the town and reflects upon the quality of our elected representatives. No amount of changing the subject can change that.
True friends stab you in the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 January 2010
14:4437055i am not sure either about double rating, heard different things from different people.
the phrase seems to suggest that we will pay twice for the same thing, this will not happen.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 January 2010
15:1237063Double rating would only be an issue if DDC were paying for Dover loos while the other Parish and Town Councils paid for the loos in their areas. It is the residents in other parishes who would have a grudge, not Dover residents, who in that situation would be getting off scot free.
The fact that the loos have been taken over by other Parishes and Town Councils, apart from Dover, simply means that should DTC not take them on it would be right and proper and indeed equitable, for DDC to close the Dover loos.
How the procedures are or have been applied is another matter and I will not comment on whether DDC or DTC are in the right or wrong on that as I have no inside knowledge.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,984
10 January 2010
15:1937065Well here goes I will use River as an excample .Every year a precept is raised roughly £60,000 .That money is used for the PCSO £13,000 or more ,River Recreation Ground £28,000 a clerks salary plus an office in the clerks house .The odd flower beds etc .River residents also pay through the council tax levied by DDC for toilets in Dover ,play areas etc .Currently the toilets in town are paid for by all residents of the district so if you live in Capel to the west or Wingham going to the east of the district they pay twice .We then look to see what the precept raised by DTC pays for .I dont have that information .I do know they raise a high precept which is not capped .Every year DDC has to make its revenue budgets balance .We have to raise enough money for the services which we provide .Always there is the threat of being capped .Pension schemes go up contracts go up and each year we are sqeesed more and more .
The whole solution is to devolve down to the Parishes and Town councils
Paul has stated some parish councils and own Councils have done this .
River took on the running of the rec in . 1988.It has cost us a lot of money over the years .
When you receive your tax bills look at the way it is divided .We all know KKC are Education ,Social Services Highways etc .DDC Parks,Planning ,Environmental Health /This is not a complete break down .
Andy what do you get from Guston Parish Council??
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,984
10 January 2010
15:2137067Sorry Barry I was posting at the same time .You at least were honest and used the word grudge .Rightly so two different issuies .
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
16:0437080So we do have most people agreeing a mistake has been made by NIGEL and if Roger was honest and it wasn t nigel making this decision i'm sure he to would be questioning the decision.
This started off as a debate on the closure of Dovers toilets, but has become far bigger, the issue now is about does nigel realy care about local democracy.
It would be great to get a view from Nigel to defend his undemocratic decision.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
10 January 2010
16:0737082No fear we have not heard the last from Mr Collor he is just holding back till he thinks the timeing is right and it all cools down and the public move away from all this and they will.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
16:1237084VIC
Nigel cant hide, even if he doesnt come on here both he, and his party will be remembered when people go to the ballot box.
And the longer our nigel stays away the less crosses will go on his parties ballot paper.
Charlie must be pulling his hair out
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
10 January 2010
16:2137087His own or Nigel`s?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
10 January 2010
16:3737091I hope so Keith it is alot of nails in the old box.
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
10 January 2010
16:5137094As Barry only lives 100 metres from the Town Centre as does Nigel, it is not to great an'inconvenience' for them to pop home should the need arise. A couple of classic examples of I'm all right Jack' without considering the needs of others.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
10 January 2010
16:5437095Yes but would they let the public use them,but they are asking others to.
We have had a talk Ken and you know what i said.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
10 January 2010
20:0637117Alot has been said on this and its a topic that will not go away, so as many of you may have read the front page statement from the Mayor a meeting has been set for the 20th of January 6oclock at Maison Dieu House.
So hopefully as many of you will turn out for this as poss
.
We as a town council have never said NO and are sadden by how it seems to have been laid at our doorstep for we have said that we wish to work in partnership with District but all this takes time and discussion, which seems to have been overlook some what.
As sue has said the 2009/2010 budget still has 3months to run so the urgency was not there but still this is a chance for people to have their say, we the Town Council will be there the choice is yours.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
20:4837122Jan
I'M not into town council budgets, have asked on here for D Hannant or some one to reply to the simple question.
At what cost to us the council tax payers will this be, and i applaud the town council becoming involved, but question if they have the finances to keep open/finance all the closed tollets.
interested also to know town council view on toilets closing before talks with town council had finished.
if the town council takes on the toilets what will be cost and will something else have to be cut?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
10 January 2010
20:5337125Let`s hope it`s all sorted on 20th January, and everyone can get it out of their cistern`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
10 January 2010
21:083713010 January 2010
22:2337148Keith
I dont remember a question unanswered but I am trying to give facts and not detract from the negotiations in which we are engaged.. Unfortunately there are very many misconceptions in this thread and the answer to that is our that by the 20th maybe we can correct some of these.
Fact there is never enough in any pot to satisfy the needs of us Dovorians we have been neglected for many decades.
The DTC Budget is published and we settled on our next years budget in December.
This isnt about toilets but about a whole range of services that we have to consider and balance. The Mayors excellent statement highlights this.
We are not in dispute with the DDC we are negotiating and obtaining Data.
None of the challenges are at all simple. Witness the variety of solutions above. All take time and resources to consider and must be reported to our published cycle of committees - but anyway they need to be in accordance with Governance. Thus properly considered with full facts available.
I am not happy with the witch hunt philosophy , Nigel for example has worked very hard for many years and i am sure there is a good reason for his alleged comments. He is a very capable and energetic Councillor.