Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 January 2010
18:3236394Barry where are you./ not in hiding in the one and only loo left open are you?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2010
18:4436396they seem as accountable as the third reich vic.
watching what everyone does and says and not feeling the need to join in.
maybe kathy and/or rhys at the express knew this was happening and did not let on?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 January 2010
18:4936398I have ameeting on Wedsday I will be talking about this and the planning dept of the D.D.C. They are loading my gun for me just wait and see when that gun goes off.
Unregistered User
5 January 2010
19:1736401Interesting postings on here.
I think some months ago DDC issued press releases and I even wrote on this Forum of the financial pressures being faced.
Howard I believe picked up the original thread very astutely.
JHG implied that DDC were double rating the public by asking the Towns and Parish Council to either make a contribution or take the conveniences.
In reality if they -Towns/Parishes- charged for the service it meant that DDC would remove these amounts from our Budgets and the public would make the same Council Tax contribution in total and keep the services.
In the end you only pay one Council Tax bill however the precepting bodies apportion their sums.
Having gone thru. nearly 3 months of consultations with individual Towns and Parishs; the majority including Deal, Walmer, St Margarets, Kingsdown & Sandwich have indicated they are minded to make contributions towards keeping the services. We await responses from Ash and another rural Parish.
I understand Dover Town Council have indicated that they do not want to make a contirbution -as is their democratic right. I am sure they weighed up public opinion before making this decision i.e "pay a penny to spend a penny".
There were three other toilets discussed. Connaught Park, Stembrook and East Cliff. All of which remain open.
I would be very happy to keep all the loos open and charge you Council Tax accordingly , but government capping decisions preclude us charging you these sums and also require us to remove a minimum of £600k from our budgets this year with more budget restrictions in the next two years. That is why we are sharing services with our neighbouring councils to reduce costs and have implemented a pay freeze since last July.
Ongoing talks continue on tourism services.
I hope this answers the questions in general.
To deal with other innuedoes. I Lead From the front and take responsibility for decisions taken,as do my Cabinet.
Watty
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
5 January 2010
20:0036402Thanks ,Paul, for the reply.
I'm sure you can find justification until doomsday for taking a decision to close public facilities such as toilets in exactly the same way KCC can justify the failure to grit pavements and log-jam the town so that an ambulance couldn't get to a fallen and injured pregnant woman, but the net result is that basic human necesseties are being overlooked here.
As a diabetic with prostate problems, I'd like to know why my basic fundamental medical needs can be dismissed as surplus to Council funding. No matter how flowery the excuses trotted out, failure to provide basic toilet facilities is inhuman, and if there's nothing to hide behind, why wasn't this brought up and voted on in open Council? Even Conservative Councillors are outraged at this, and this particular Conservative voter is wondering why on earth he voted in that direction in the first place. Do you really believe that closing public toilets is the manifesto by which David Cameron hopes to lead the Tories to victory this spring?
What you have done is a damned disgrace to this town. Gwyn Prosser must have a grin as wide as the Dartford Tunnel tonight.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
5 January 2010
20:0036403So in other terms Watty, over the years we are all going to pay more for less services?
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
5 January 2010
20:0236404It isn't just about local residents and their council taxes - it is also about tourism and attracting visitors. budgets, while fixed, are also open to creativity.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
5 January 2010
20:0436405Have to say I agree with alot of what has been said these things do seem to be decided by just a few, and I'm with sue on this as far as I know it has not gone through full council.
While I'm glad to see that PaulW has come on and at least given some sort of reply it still makes me wonder what is next for the chop.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
5 January 2010
20:0736407OOOOOOH don't go there Jan. It could be painful.
It seems this thread has grabbed one and all. Will Nigel give a reply?
After a pow wow with the guv eh.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
5 January 2010
20:1036409since local goverment reorganisation who has run the toilets and it is no use saying we did Paul,but now we don't want,a case of its my ball and you can't play with it,Who is responible for Public Toilets and has been for the last 20years! Perhaps my neighbour would take over my garden if I didn't want to do it and pay me for doing it.
So we can look forward to a rate reduction then Paul as you have sold off all the toilets,no of course we can't it will be intresting to see the reduction in the budget.
OK blame the Town Council but answer these questions,how much over budget was Deal Pier,how much did it cost us to put on the Bleriot event and how much is it going to cost to sort out the losses,then tell me how much it costs to keep open a public toilet.
The true face of the Council,close the play areas,close the toilets,put up burial fees,put up car parking,sit back and blame everyone else.When this becomes general knowledge there will be a backlash,and it won't be to those Cllrs who will fight to reopen those toilets.
If you lead from the front with your cabinet members then we know who to blame.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2010
20:1636412it is good to see paul the fuhrer post on the subject, but still the issue of lack of consultation in unanswered.
it is bad enough that a closed cabinet makes decisions without the input of all elected councillors, but it seems that one concillor only wielded the axe here.
other issues raised have been about medical needs by andy, the effects on tourism by bern and the question of what will be next by jan.
if money is that tight why not charge people a few bob for using these facilties rather than just closing them?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 January 2010
20:2136416it allso seems that kcc are makeing big cut backs to.there is allso rumor that a concervative goverment will kill of the nhs once and for all.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
5 January 2010
20:2436417That is simply not true Brian - nothing of the sort, that's just muck-spreading.
I understand the constraints that DDC are facing, but I fundamentally do not agree with closing public toilets.
It's not for me to say what the Town Council should or should not do, but at the end of the day, the residents only pay once, they won't be double rated on them.
More responsiblilty for the Town Councils not less, will mean that more services will/should be taken on-board by the Town Council(s).
Other Town and Parish Councils are happy to take them on, why not Dover ?
Roger
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 January 2010
20:2536418I do not think Mr Watkins you are puting the whole case with your post,just trying to talk your way out of it. What about the older ones of us who now find it is over 1mile beween the loos and in this weather as well.You are looking at just puting the blame on to the TOWN COUNCIL.because of the Election coming up, You are not showing anycare for the older ones at all, or mums with very young familys.you say you lead from the front and take responsibility on decisions ,that is not what you was telling me last time we had a talk in the car park up at your offices,when I asked you about planning E,T,C. you told me you do not make all the decisions or take on the responsibilyof some of the decisions made by your officers.
I put it to you that the D,D,C, are blackmailing the D,T,C, to taking over the looes because you know of the outcry will be from the public about them closing down. But like you did over the selling of the port last time round you have shot your own foot again. The Public of Dover will see it that way to.
And even if you are right in what you say, is it right to make the public suffer in this way and the ones that need help the most the very old and the very young unlike your cllr N.Collor some of us can not go into the pubs and use their looes like he does, also he lives in the town centre so can get to his own looe in just a few mins unlike some of us who live outside the town.
If I was you I would just open them up again in the morning and put this all behind you.
For the rest of you reading my post tonight I have already taken some action on this,we will find out in the morning if they will help . thank you.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
5 January 2010
20:2536419Ah Brian,KCC have just announced a 0% pay freeze for thier staff,last year the Councillors I think voted for a 40% pay increase,doesn't sound very fare
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Unregistered User
5 January 2010
20:2636421Hopefully not Ian. You should only pay for the same service once with someone else itemising you for that service.Bern , it is about local residents and their Council taxes. They have to pay for the services. Budgets are not fixed they are reducing. If I picked the Museum , the Sports Centre, Disabled Facilities grants, private sector housing grants , increased car parking charges, reductions in waste collections etc. ,closure of Connaught Park, Kearsney Abbey etc. you would all shout and rightly so. What we have done is asked others to make a contribution to the services in their areas, because they are not capped and have a feel for their local communities. You will see from my previous posting the response from the majority of Towns/Parishes. They value these services and want to keep them for their communities. It's choices.So let's get this right, the people of Deal will pay for their own loos ,as will my patch at St Margaret's, only individually billed for by their Towns/Parishes.
The people of Walmer are not only paying and keeping their loos they are taking over the local paddling pool
Creativity I can do Bern. Whether it is legal begs the question.
Watty
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 January 2010
20:2836422roger read your manifesto between the lines.75%of tory mps want to see the back of the nhs.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 January 2010
20:3236423Please read my post i have just done above I had to edit the post.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2010
20:3236424brian
i think that needs another thread mate, this is purely about the khasis.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 January 2010
20:3636425well they have to start somewhere,khasis today hospitals tomorrow.