20 January 2010 23:2138402
consider yourself lucky that he did not slap a glove across your boat.
congrats on making the 400th post.
21 January 2010 02:0838420
Costs per toilet...
Maison Dieu £24,884.18
Buckland Bridge £17,875.13
East Cliff £15,935.54
I think you've made a mistake. According to the handout you provided this evening, these are the correct figures - I think you've jumped a column:
Connaught Park: £9,824.41
Maison Dieu £17.875.13
Buckland Bridge £8,686.98
East Cliff £15,935.54
From notes taken, I have the distinct impression that some of the points raised by DTC regarding the cost of Maison Dieu toilets this evening utilised the incorrect figures posted here in this thread. Prior cross-checking would have been advisable.
21 January 2010 14:2938435
402 posts and suddenly silence .I thought with all that new found knowledge and public meeting this forum would be flooded out Not many people there considering it was such an important issuie .I have seen more at a meeting in River .
21 January 2010 15:5438439
Keith, No offence at all, at all. It was great to see you and have a chance to banter away together in the pub after the DTC meeting. I like a good banter so I do, keeps one on their toes!
To the contrary Sue, it was a very packed meeting last night with some great communication between the audience and DTC. Alas, there are no instant solutions to these outrageous abrupt toilet closures, no doubt it's going to take some time to resolve
21 January 2010 17:0038442
I think all that needed saying has been said, and we're looking to either DTC or DDC to announce that all is well, the toilets will be open tomorrow complete with attendant and will remain free of charge until at least 2025.
Or I am being a tad hopeful?
True friends stab you in the front.
21 January 2010 17:5238446
Sue, I counted and there were around seventy people at the meeting, excluding the council themselves. I'd say that was a pretty good turn out. Remember this was at 6pm - this time naturally excludes most families with children and many day workers who were probably just going home. If it had been at 7pm I would have thought the attendance would have been even higher.
I think it was quite right that DTC did not ask us to vote on the four options they presented. Costings and options have to worked out, and at this early stage, voting would have been emotive knee-jerk rather than considered with facts.
Good to see the Mayor of Deal and a councillor from Sevenoaks lend their support.
21 January 2010 18:1338448
It must have been good,as I said before my x Wife was there,and she got up and had her say,we was with each other 18yrs and she never done that before.
And that was the first council meeting she had been to.
21 January 2010 19:1138451
seems a fair enough appraisal phil, one thing though, the councillor from sevenoaks is the libdem candidate for dover and deal.
hence his appearance.
21 January 2010 19:3738456
To be fair there were a lot of contributions from the floor and indeed from the Town council itself.
Clearly those present know where the decision was taken, and now its about looking to the future.
There are no quick fixes to the disaster created by your party at District.
I'm pleased also that most present at the meeting (and it closer to 100 attending) but the numbers doesnt realy matter, as iv been to river meetings where not one member of the public was there.
Yes its amotive subject, and the Town council with all the guns at its head has to try to find a solution to at least some of the issues.
I'm a great believer in decisions being made at the lowest possible levels(even down to community groups) and in time Im sure work presently donre by the county and District will be devolved down to the town council.
But this should be done by negotiation and agreement, not by as we are seeing at the moment, District closng the toilets, then putting gun to town councils head and saying if you dont foot the bill we wont re open them!
I do understand the politics of this crazy decision, but this will backfire on the present administration.
I'm sure Nigel (woops mentioned his name)thinks by doing this now it will all be forgotten come the general election and future elections,
Sorry bruv, you got this one wrong, people are incensed, and come the general and any other election(including those involving our N.C.) WILL BE REMEMBERED.
I just hope the Town council can savalge something out of this disaster, I look forward to further meetings with the town council on all the ideas they have for the future.
The Idea put forward to use shop toilets is a non starter for a number of reasons, not just the health and safety implications, and realy we should be looking at why the toilets were closed, and how this type of decision making can never be allowed to happen again.
Im going to write to the PM to see his view on changing the cabinet system or ways of changing this present UNDEMOCRATIC council.
I will keep you posted
21 January 2010 19:4038457
Give it a couple of months, the loos will be forgotten about.... business as usual (i hope!!)
Been nice knowing you :)
21 January 2010 19:4638458
Thats what Nigel hopes, but on this one EVERYONE is fully aware who made that drastic decision, and everyone will be looking to make sure they vote for any party other than this undemocratic leading party, but more so they will looking to vote against N.C.
He will live to regret this decision
And he deserves to
21 January 2010 19:5038459
Paul in this case it will not happen,because each time you need to use one this will all come back.
21 January 2010 20:2638460
you did say that you would not mention the name of nigel again in relation to this tissue(sorry issue).
21 January 2010 20:3638462
Vic - I am happy to support a business and use a loo.. so should many other people.
The nearest public loo is at least a couple of miles from me so I would like a saving in my council tax
Been nice knowing you :)
21 January 2010 20:5838463
It is very difficult to avoid using the name of a person who has closed the toilets, and realy why shouldnt he be shamed?
The debate now will go on, and theres a lot to look into on how best we Dover people move on.
21 January 2010 21:4638464
in your post 409 line 3 you speak of looking to the future.
quite right, according our forum leader, a certain name was not mentioned in the course of the evening.
you have stated that 100 people(approx) were there.
does that not tell you something.
someone said to me today about how they would be quite happy about paying a small amount to use a public toilet in town if it was clean and looked after.
victor has already said the same and mentioned the charlton centre who get 50% of costs from paying customers.
if the toilets were manned then machines similar to the ones that we see in the eastern docks travel centre could be installed.
disposable razors, toothpaste and brush and a machine that vends that strange tasting chewing gum even.
it is clear that the district council have scored an own goal on this one, political capital has been gained, now is the time to move on and find a long term solution so that we are not faced with this farce again.
21 January 2010 21:5538466
There is no part of your post that I disagree with, but it needs to be done as D Hannant stated, properly costed, and with proper and open consultation.
One thing Cllr Young mentioned which i hadnt thought of was the state of the toilets, not just the poor quality, but also the fabric of the building, which may add big costs to any decision the town council may make.
Iv been openly surprized at the way the town council has been open and professional in the way it has handled itself in these talks, and i do look forward the outcomes.
Im all for the Town council being given a lot more work from the District, but it has to be paid for, and the talks should not be with a gun at the town councils head.
22 January 2010 06:1838477
I thank everyone who turned up at the meeting and for the super positive contributions made from which many ideas have come.
Since then we have been working continually ( note the time someone!, I had to stop last night and crash but others were at it til midnight!) and today we are working to two sub- committee meetings from 11am then MW has to send out reports on it all to councillors today for next weeks meeting. I said our resources were limited as unlike the District we do not have teams of high rated officers. Its not a whinge but just so you understand the reality of the size differential. David and Goliath
In actual fact I needed more information on Tourism for the report and called DDC yesterday and had a very productive meeting with two of them at 4pm in my office. A brilliant response.
Please attend next weeks meetings at Town and District as we can't move forward now without all councillors voting on the results of our consultation and deliberations.
I would offer the observation subsequent to the meeting about paying for toilets v the quality and cleanliness. A paid attendant would raise the cost of running by more than double and yes we would get a much better product. Coin operated external doors in an unattended/monitored situation may only result in providing a regular moneybox for vandals and thus more maintenance cost - if you put it on the outside door then it only needs someone to pay the money and wedge the door open or create more mischief inside. If on inside doors you gain little to protect the building as a whole. You will note that examples given -eg Charlton and DHB are in monitored environments where cleaners are available all the time they are open. Anyway its my thoughts and we will be looking for all ideas. Disabled provision has been brought to our attention by the meeting.
22 January 2010 14:3538490
If a pay on entry system then not a door but the "full height" turnstile system that only lets one in at a time .
This is used in many City locations for pay toilets
22 January 2010 15:1638491
There are lots of ways of turning them into pay ones and Pat has picked on one of the better ones.but we are going round and round on this one.I think like some of you it is time to put a stop on it now and just see what turns up.it is doing my head in.