22 January 2010 17:5538506
Please - pretty please - don't let dificulties get in the way of getting the toilets opened up. I know DTC have much on their plate, but anything that helps get the toilets open will be very greatly appreciated.
Pat beat me to it with his suggestion. I've seen these in many places.
True friends stab you in the front.
22 January 2010 19:1638509
Doing our best Andy - I am as frustrated as anyone but we have to wait for DTC council next week - we have got some plan but it depends on the democratic process....
It is much confused by District Councillors' postings on here. Good job tourism hasn't had so much misdirection as we are about to consider an advanced plan next week to progress our resolution of last Council. You see it can be done .
I have noted Pats suggestion - but that takes time to implement as well.
22 January 2010 19:5038515
Those turn-stiles are very good, but also very expensive, so some capital outlay will be necessary; but this is all in the future.
I realise there may be options open to the Town Council, I also realise it is not my place to advise them, but as it is "only" the cleaning contract they are being asked to take over, would that not be the best thing to do - take over the cleaning of the Town's toilets now and negotiate other possibilities during the year - this way the toilets can be open immediately.
Maintenance is not an issue - now; ownership is not an issue - now; opening them now - is.
Just to say it one more time; if the District Council are not paying the cleaning bill, they won't charge Dover residents for it - that will be done by Dover Town Council, so the service is maintained, at no extra cost.
22 January 2010 20:1638526
Please stop this as I have advised on the front page.
If you are intent please would you send me on monday a copy of the mail or letter where the statement you made has been made to DTC. I am sure that would have been accompanied with the breakdown of such contract.
I havent seen it but you obviously have.
22 January 2010 20:3138527
Oh dear ROGER you are getting in a stew.
I think its fair for the Town council to look at any cleaning contract before deciding whether or not to take any or all of it on.
22 January 2010 21:3638539
I think we need to start with first principles.Following the public meeting are DTC prepared in principle to negotiate an agreement/formula to open/ keep Dover's toilets open? If so, then we can cut some of the rubbish of this debate short straight away.David , do you have the authority to make that decision? If not , who does and when ?I have purposely not commented on here so far, to keep channels open and will still refrain from being drawn in.
DDC have communicated with the Town Clerk.
22 January 2010 21:4238540
that is something that crossed my mind.
who makes the final decision on this matter at DTC?
i think it might have been better if you had nipped things in the bud a little earlier paul.
half of what has been posted must be disinformation, probably not intentional, on here and around town speaking to different people, everything is just rumour and guesswork.
22 January 2010 21:5938542
Of course I would love to hear D Hannants and other town councilors
At the end of the day, as you know paulw
The town council is DEMOCRATIC and makes COLLECTIVE decisions by the majority vote.
From Davids postings of late the town council still waits for your package such as the cleaning contract details.
You wouldn't sign a blank cheque,
Dont expect the town council to.
Just remember which one person closed them, I, and many many others will.
22 January 2010 23:4138549
As you well know DTC does not work on the cabinet system. All authority comes from the Council and no Councillor can make decisions without that authority. slow yes but I didn't make the rules. No matter what any individual may say without the authority of the corporate body it is not approved. We have told everyone what the process is and today we sent out reports of wednesdays meeting and recommendations ready for the debate on Thursday. Within those documents are what I think are proposals for solutions to resolve all issues. Of course.
Unfortunately there seems to be a trend coming from some DDC councillors here to make statements that are untrue and confuse the real issues. I would be grateful if you would appraise them of the facts if they wish to comment.So we can get on with finding a solution. Unfortunately the decision to close toilets has caused the subject of devolution to become a political issue and occlude the real issue making things rather more difficult. I have always personally been a supporter of devolution and have been working to find an answer to the problems of shifting tasks. Witness the progress on Tourism. I also am not a supporter of Politics at town level but we now seem to be embroiled in it since the unfortunate closures.
I await next weeks Council meeting - please come - and then maybe we can move forward swiftly.
23 January 2010 00:0238552
David, I do admire most of what you post, but have stand bemused on the NO POLITICS bit.
This is not realy much to do with politics, but more to do with getting people to talk, serious consultation with the plebs
(sorry i mean the public), involvement of councillors/public in decision making,
No guns at the head talks, but true talks between DDC/DTC.
It can be done,
23 January 2010 00:0838554
I was not going to post on this subject anymore but I take exception to your comments David .I have my facts from the Leader of the council and officers
My only wish for the DTCwas to give a yes or no so could reopen the toilets
You were given the figures for the cleaning and running of the toilets .They were printed on this forum and given out to the public at your meeting
I donot think the Tourism agenda strikes at so many peoples heart strings .You can keep talking on that one as long as it takes .But the toilet issuie was completely different ...
23 January 2010 00:2838558
Whilst we may not always agree, I have a lot of respect for your fighting spirit,
this latest post on David H IS a little bemusing.
There still is some confusion about the cleaning contract, how long its for, and what opt out would the town council have if the need arose.
Everyone wants the toilets open, but lets be clear, it was NOT the town council that closed the toilets,
Dover deserves better than the way this was handled
23 January 2010 09:2638567
If you keep rehearsing the same arguements we will go nowhere fast.
The question is simple. Are DTC prepared in principle to takeover or finance Dover's public toilets in the same way other Towns and Parishes have agreed.
It is not the how, which people keep putting in the way, that is the problem, that comes later as we begin talks on this matter or not.
If the answer is yes then we move forward.
David is it your block of votes or Gordon Cowan's block of votes that will deliver this or crossover's from each? That is what I believe is the stumbling block and you know it. We can't do business continually going around in circles without one person being given responsibility to get on with it. That is why we have arrived here.
As you said earlier,these talks started in November.
23 January 2010 11:0838572
The next step is the DTC meeting on thursday and towards that I am gathering facts and will argue for action - then a vote will be taken and we can move forward. You will have your answer then.End.
23 January 2010 15:1138575
As a simple elector and rate payer of this fair town, I have to express my utter disappointment with the behaviour of our Conservative district councillors and the officers; not only in closing the toilets in what appears to have been a pre-emptive fashion, but also in terms of the obfuscation, misinformation and general contempt of their opponents, the town council, the people of the town etc.
From my perspective the Town Council have mostly come out of this with credit.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
23 January 2010 18:1538584
Like you I feel the town council has come out of this well.
As I stated at the town council public meeting iv not been a fan of the town council, but they I believe even with this gun at there head by the District THEY WONT BE RUSHED Paulw should remember it was his friend who closed the toilets and if he truely wanted to get the toilets issue resolved, then going along with closing them whilst talking to the Town council was the wrong route.
With regards to voting, im sure, unlike the administration at District, the Town council will inform all its cllrs
24 January 2010 16:2238632
As one of the councillors who will be voting at the DTC Full Council meeting there are a few points we will need to know to assist with our deliberations.
If we agreed a payment to DDC for the continued cleaning etc. of the toilets for the next financial year who would be paying for the remainder of the current financial year? If such a payment is desired from DTC how much extra will it cost us (and by extention the ratepayers)?
As it appears equipment has been removed, whether it be functional or sanitary, what costs will be incurred in replacing them and who is expected to pay it?
As I have not seen any contracts on this, how long do they have to run and are there any penalty costs in changing them?
There are other questions but these would help as a start.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
24 January 2010 19:1038644
excellent post chris.
simple but important questions put to our fuhrer without any accusations.
as soon as paul returns from evensong, i feel sure he will be able to give a reply.
24 January 2010 19:3938661