howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 January 2010
21:4636611john
paul and susan have kept politics out of it.
barry is barry, the weather outside at present will be down to the evil socialists.
my understanding is that the town council and district council are meeting to get us out of this impasse.
only rational discussion can get the facilties open quickly, then hopefully reasonable local representatives can get their
heads together to discuss the future funding.
what do you think of the idea of the public paying each time john?
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
6 January 2010
22:1136617I for one think this is outrageous, not only does it inconvenience the good (or bad) burghers of the town and tourists/visitors, more importantly it means Connaught Services have just had their work cut in half and this will no doubt mean one or more of their staff could lose his job.
Paul Watkins asked what we would cut to pay to keep these toilets open, for me I would get rid of the Chief Exec, replace the current staff superannuation scheme with a bog standard money purchase scheme. Also how about using Section 106 agreements on new town centre developments to either provide toilets or generate funds to keep the existing ones open, oh and finally make them pay facilities to keep the vandal, drunk, junkie scum out.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
6 January 2010
22:1236618Howard I don't have a problem with people paying,but the chances are it will never pay for itself,and of course you have wages to pay if you make it with an attendant,plus if you are going to charge you have to make the experiance worth it.
On the subject of keeping politics out of it H,Paul was answering on behalf of the Leader of the Major Party and defending a decision made by a Politician,of course it is political,Sue is Sue and she always has her own views which are usually different but not always to her party.Nothing wrong with that.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
6 January 2010
22:3736627John
I think you miss the point that by charging keeps the rifraf out and reduces maintenance costs (including cleaning), gives a cleaner loo than at present (see my earlier postings). Certainly there would not need to be a permanent attendant but could be covered by a visit for cleaning etc every X hours (This may be the case now as Vics post would indicate a presence at certain times)
Paul
H&S is used so often as an excuse. Before I moved to Dover through our local Councillor in Ashford we were able to avail the service of people on Community Service list for litter cleaning etc. It is more a question of if a Council is prepared to organise it.
I am pleased that you have put matters re PCSO's to Fuller as Kent Police seem to avoid using these appointed people for seving notices etc that they could do if the Chief Constable/Local Officer responsible so desired. Where is Mr Fullers satement at the time of his appointment that he would only accept Zero Tollerance.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
6 January 2010
22:5036633Sheila, I don't agree with your analogy at all.
We are talking about the cleaning and maintenance of toilets; the public would not be charged any more for them if the Town or District ran them. The difference is that the District Council rates are capped, the Town Council precept is not - same difference to the public, who I'm sure would want them to stay open.
They were closed prematurely, especially as negotiations between DDC and DTC were on-going.
Re-open them and continue talking.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 January 2010
23:0336636pat
surely you have reached the onclusion that our chief constable is a sound bite greasy pole climber by now?
it must be 5 years since he was appointed and made all the usual blandishments.
all we get are the odd "we will no tolerate" statements after one prosecution for a thousand similar offences, a few new posters in the town about community concerns, and the guff through the door telling us that they have sorted all that we were concerned about.
i feel a lot of sympathy for the coppers that join up to make a difference.
our town centre bloke was about this afternoon freezing to death, but eyes swivelling out of their sockets, looking around and making sure that all is ok.
7 January 2010
00:0336642I confirm that today the Town clerk and I had a constructive and positive meeting with officers of DDC regarding the Tourist issues and that that meeting will be reported to our sub committee now formed to deal with the resolutions we have made. Timescales and mutual reporting have been agreed and we are working towards a solution. The target is to resolve this issue within a near, finite timescale.
I expressed our concern about the toilets matter to the Cllr Scales and unfortunately had to leave for a hospital appointment in ashford.
Fact:: DTC has never refused to take over toilets,
Fact : Before we can legally do so we must comply with Governance - and that means Public consultation amongst other things like financial control.
Fact: The resources of DTC are limited and it is unfortunate that all these issues came about before we could make proper consideration in setting our budgets. We have set a budget of 0% this coming year.
Many people are working hard to resolve matters so your input is welcomed.
We shall continue....
I have made these two postings to show that effort and cooperation is in progress despite some negative statements upon which I will not comment as I simply wish to correct a balance with facts not generate further dispute. I am certain that a full solution will be achieved.
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
7 January 2010
00:5036645In reply to Watty's post #44. I know where Buckland Bridge toilets are and I also know where the Maison Dieu toilets are as I am a regular user. Like Andy Cooper I also have a prostate problem and sometimes have to make a dash for it. Looks like I shall have to dash somewhere else now.
I wouldn't mind paying 20 pence for a splash which is the price that Main line train and bus stations usually charge nowadays, though I don't suppose that would deter the druggies and vandals.
I think that I would rather have decent toilets than a Cable car running across the town. I wont even mention the TV screen.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
7 January 2010
08:3036652Sue
I think John has it right, this is a POLITICAL decision made by a leading forumite,with total lack of consultation, or thought for local people.
Sue you do a wonderful job praising where its due, and point out CORRECTLY that Paulw shouldn't take all the blame(don't fully support that view) but at the end of the day forumites who have always looked up to OUR NIGEL must now be regretting that little x they put on the ballot paper.
I hope like Sue that Nigel will come on here and attempt to justify this decision
but I don't hold out much hope on that
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
7 January 2010
09:3136658Thank you David
Roger
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
7 January 2010
09:3236659If the price for keeping these facilities open is that one has to pay, then so be it. Nobody as far as I am aware has ever made any attempt at public consultation, and I'm sure that the public would have reacted with a degree of understanding that would have reflected better upon DDC than to simply shut the toilets without notice. That's unforgiveable - and yes, that will reflect on DDC politically, what else would one reasonably expect? As many others on here have said, keeping toilets open should be above party politics, and the fact that they have been closed in such a sneaky and underhand manner beggars belief.
That said, there has been some constructive comments as a result and I hope that DDC will reflect on some of them and get the toilets open again. I don't agree with Sue when she says that the DDC can come out of all this smelling of roses - certain people have acted brashly and stupidly and will be tainted as a result, but they can at least salvage some honour by doing the right thing and get the toilets opened up again. We're adults - nobody expects something for nothing - so isn't it about time we were treated as such.
I've been to fairly unpleasant places in my time, but all of them - including Giza Station in Egypt - has public toilets (although I think 'open sewer' would be a closer description). That Dover is in the process of closing public toilets puts us lower than Egypt. How much lower do we have to sink?
True friends stab you in the front.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
7 January 2010
10:4436664I actually said Dover Town Council can come out of this smelling of roses.Like Keith states I think people will now see a side of Nigel some of us knew he had .I see he is plastered in the Mercury today something to do with their Chamber of Commerce .
I still think the toilets should be reopened now .Let the talks continue .
I have costed the upkeep of toilets as I have always said toilets are a basic human need .I bet not many of you know there are no toilets at Crabble Athletic ground the ones nearby were sold of years ago .
If everyone pays twenty pence it would go a long way to keep them being kept clean ,after all the building is already there .Im glad the talk re tourism went ok but the most important issuie David was the toilets.
It would then be a small cost to the local rate payers
Nigel has not even posted on here left it to Paul .I thought the cabinet were a collective body and each member is equal ??.
7 January 2010
11:3336673No loos at Crabble? That's a disgrace!
Nigel - a posting from you would be very welcome. PaulWs post was effective and timely.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 January 2010
12:2136679nigel will be posting here shortly, as soon as he has recovered from several stab wounds in his back.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
7 January 2010
12:4036681Well i have just been talking to someone at DDC .I dont trhink all is lost .If Nigel will not come on here and give a better explanation than he did in THe Mercury he should resign .I think his actions serve no credibility at all .WE have not even had the budget debates yet .I have checked with Roger W as some Conservative councillors attended a meeting where we were given the scenarios of what could happen 2010/2011 /Some years ago we had a SAMATO exercise where the public would state what they would like kept etc .the Anti Social Behaviout unit and CCTV was a high priority .Im sure Keith and John recall this .
Trouble is some politicians have too short a memory
7 January 2010
15:5336702Sue
I dont disagree that toilets are more important than tourism but there wasn't an issue whilst they were open ( although I am not convinced that the closing of the seafront toilet last year was justified either). The reason we are negotiating for tourism primarily is that it is something that can be done in a short while and we have certain opportunities that must be kept alive.
I did point out that once toilets are closed it will cost more to open them again. You can see from this subject that it isnt a simple matter and not something that can be hurried. I repeat that DTC are preparing for a public Consultation very soon.
D
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
7 January 2010
16:1936708Im pleased to read you posting David .From personal experience I do understand a lot of talking goes on in the backround and sometimes to much public stirring can cause havoc to what can be simple resolutions .Let us hope that a deal can be achieved toilets reopened with some sort of practical solution to the problem .
I dont think either DDC or DTC want to inconvenience the public .
Please let the discussion continue with out politics standing in the way .Neither DDC or DTC are seeking re election this year .
I can only add that the people of River and they are the people plus Alkham whom I represent .We pay over £13,000 for our PCSO ,our own Toilets ,
Flower beds ,and the biggy River Recreation ground with superb facilities plus the play area They budget well The Parish Council is non political .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 January 2010
17:0836710some interesting points from susan there, without mentioning the cable car, big screen or nigel either.
i think that cool heads here will bring a solution, other town and parish councils seem to be helping as best they can.
the danger as i see it, is that the facilities could be used as a political football, which will alienate the public.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
7 January 2010
19:2536741I appreciate that not everyone (shock-horror) looks in on the Forum, but a good number do and so lots of people can see the anger the (premature) closing of these two toilets has caused.
No shame to open them - now. Keep negotiations going and keep toilets open.
Roger
8 January 2010
18:2136810The Public Consultation meeting concerning devolution of services is set for Wednesday 20th January, at 6pm, in the Council Chamber, at the Town Council Offices
