howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
thanks neil, a couple of points if i may.
when you mention less vessel calls a lot of this is down to ever bigger ships, the newer cruise liners and the two "spirit" ferries are evidence of this.
agree that traffic levels are down but european economies have been in the doldrums, when the upturn comes dover as the shortest crossing point to mainland europe will be back at the forefront.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
pressed send then remembered, you mention about bringing properties in the western end back into economic use.
i note that you can't give details on what will happen but we have to assume that they will be sold off to other businesses.
without wishing to harp on this will mean even more traffic blighting aycliffe, snargate and townwall streets.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Hi Howard, indeed, reduction in the number of vessel calls has come in part due to larger vessels deployed. I had already highlighted the anticipated reduction in the number of vessel calls even before the incorporation of DPPT.
Traffic levels at Dover are 545,000 vehicles lower today than they were in 1997. Since 2009 the number amount of traffic moving via Kent to continental Europe has risen consistently, 2010 saw near 5% market growth and 2011 just under 4% market growth. Dover however continued to show negative growth throughout the period 2007-2011. Ferry Company forecasts, UK and continental haulier forecasts in aggregate indicate at best flat traffic levels through Dover alone in 2012 and 2013 with between 3 and 4% growth at Dover alone in 2014. This compares to overall market growth forecasts ex Kent to near continent of 3.8% in 2012, 4.5% in 2013 and just over 6% in 2014.
In short, yes, Dover will return to growth, but it will take a long time to recover even to 2005 traffic and vessel call volumes and in the meantime we have to ensure that as much of the port as possible is used for profitable economic activity and manage traffic to/from the port more effectively in order to reduce the adverse impact on the town. This means reviewing and modifying the Masterplan to deliver 'growth without gridlock' (sorry, just borrowing a phrase from a KCC report).
I have been through all of this in some detail on previous threads and postings.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
BERN!!!
I have just given my explanation, before Peter started it all of again.
Please do not tell me to "give it a rest" Bern, you have no right to.
This is official business being discussed here, not what Neil is claiming regards his projects as a manager of a charity that has no control whatsoever over the Port of Dover, but whether I am part of an official public consultation.
I would advise you, Bern, not to discredit me on this, as this is becoming openly provocative.
If its official buisness Alex may I sugest you use official channels ,not an open public forum where one opinion, even if it consists of errant nonsense, and I leave it to others to judge which posts come under that heading , is as allowed as another
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Hi Howard....no, not sold to other businesses. I mean brought back into port operational activity. Port land suitable for port/marine operations managed by the port operator will be operated and be brought back into economic and profitable activity by the port. Land and properties designated as non-operational (ie, not able to be utilised now or in the future for marine operations) will become part of the regeneration vehicle's portfolio. Improvements to port access roads and roundabouts on the Western side are already agreed between the port, DDC and KCC. These improvements will be made and will reduce traffic impacts at Aycliffe and Snargate as economic activity through the Western end of the port increases. Increased economic activity on the Western side of the port will already have the effect of reducing traffic on Townwall Street and there are other traffic management measures planned by DPPT, but yet to be agreed with DTC, DDC and KCC (we cannot start the ball rolling on these new measures until we are in charge of the port) which will really make significant and beneficial differences to traffic levels on TownWall street.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
I await Bern's reply with interest, that is if she thinks such a rude post #106 worthy of reply.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
there are enough rude posts on this thread we don't need any more.
I am used to Alex!! I think, in my benevolent way, that he means well. I support entirely his right to post and hold opinions that are different to mine (and many others!), and indeed to action them if needed. I think, though, I am getting a little too old to be over tolerant of the roundabout of regurgitated justifications and challenges that sometimes happen on here - and I expect I am just as guilty, because I sometimes also bite back!!
Alex: I have not discredited you and would not try. You need no help. But I do like reading your posts.........

Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Well put Bern
Sorry Howard I did not think my post was rude.

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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not seen any rude posts from you jan.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
back to the thread neil mentions agreements between bob, kcc and ddc about port access road improvement must have been done very recently.
i was told by a dhb insider a week or two back that agreements had been reached.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Apologies if any of my posts have come across as rude. I am passionate about this subject.
Agreements are relatively recent re road and roundabouts to the West. I believe that they are a matter of public record though.
Neil, it would be a sensitive soul indeed who took offence at your posts!! Passion and discourtesy are not the same thing at all!!!!!!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
Neil - thanks for the very clear and informative posts about DPPT, the process etc.
I am lead to believe that the consultants report commissioned by DHB clearly indicated that T2 was not needed for some considerable time and that any foreseeable traffic growth could be handled by changes to traffic routes, holding lanes etc within the Eastern Docks - DHB have chosen to ignore their own consultants conclusions. I cannot divulge my source as I was advised in confidence - of course it may be pure hokum who knows until the report enters the public domain.
Alex - I fully support your right to post on this and any topic, despite almost always disagreeing with your views. I would counsel that if you are going to argue your point with someone who has a long professional career and can therefore be considered an expert on a given topic you really should make sure you have done you research and have understood all the key bits of information. It is one of the reasons I do not post on many topics as I do not have the time to become sufficiently well versed to argue the technical points.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Thanks Ross. But unfortunately I have another problem, as I might try to explain.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I have to make known here in general, that for a period of time I am suspending myself from the Forum until some things get back in order.
While not having wanted to lay any personal burden on the Forum, I have had a problem with my own blog, where my article about a rail link to Dover Port has been, on and off over a period of several months, targeted by comments that always start off about what proof I have to write an article on a rail link to western Docks, and then degenerate into very nasty insults.
And it is always on that one article. I went through the process of deleting all the comments except the first, which is totally unrelated and indeed in Polish, but alas they have been reappearing. The worse ones have been deleted, but it is a systematic campaign against me to attack me morally and inflict psychological damage.
I don't know who it is, they started off as anonymous, and now bear purported names and addresses of Dover, with references to the Forum.
I have to look after my own self here, as someone somewhere has been trying to stress me out for several months, but I don't know who or from where.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Alex I am very sorry you are having trouble. You are entitled to post here in peace and tranquility, you are not an aggressive poster and although your views are often different they are welcome.
If you feel Alex or indeed any other member feel that their posts are being attacked in bullying style please write to me.
Dover7@msn.com
I'm always receptive..as we try to make doverforum user friendly for all club members.
I hope it isnt anyone from Doverforum who is nasty to you in your blog. I dont know where your blog is...it is therefore outside my remit...but an idea might be to try and switch the comments facility off so that the abuse stops.
Would like to see you back here with us as soon as you can.
Absolutely, Alex. If you are being hassled on your blog that is outrageous. I disagree with you quite a bit, but your comments are always welcome and interesting!!
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
It sounds like you should go to the police and tell them about the harassment problem with your blog.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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