Peoples port community project
- 11 August 2012 20:16186847Ho Gary! Nice to know you on the Forum!
First of all, allow me to inform Keith that it is too late to make a representation now to the Department for Transport on the DHB submission, the last date to do so being 27th July this year. Sorry Keith
Gary, I've been in the public consultation process since it started in March 2010, and have received numerous replies from the DfT stating my representations are among those relevant being taken into consideration. They also informed me that all relevant submissions are being treated equally.
My latest representation went in during July 2012.
The construction of a T2 is part of my representation, and that only for a rail link for freight transport, so something quite different to what DHB had planned, and in fact it is stated in my submission that the major infrastructure for such rail connection is already in place at Western Docks, as the former Marine station facilities are still there.
This has been part of my campaign since March 2010.
The Government has to take into account laws on carbon emissions, and so an increase in road transport passing through the Port of Dover is not an option unless these laws are trodden on.
Dr. Goldfield's original statements in 2010, as stated in the Dover Express, were clearly to the effect that he expected Port traffic in Dover to increase by 70% with in 27 years, which was his declared reason for a new T2 and a Port privatisation to finance it.
Another point in my representation since March 2010 is that the Port should belong to the local Community as a part of Dover, under the administration of local Government, although this does not mean that DHB must necessarily be disbanded. DHB could in fact remain in place as the Port authority. But the Board's executives would be either nominated - or at least approved - by a local Government commission, possibly with the participation of Central Government.
For me, the local Community administration is represented by the Councils, and as a part of Dover's Community, I do not recognise any other authority as representing me.
Another point in my representation, is that Dover Port revenues, as they are now,should remain as Port revenues and NOT shared out for local regeneration in the town or district or elsewhere, as the Port needs this money for maintenance and future expansion.
For local regeneration, there should be a separate public revenue in all British commercial ports, namely a port toll, something equivalent to a European road toll, to be exacted on vehicles and freight containers. This revenue would be shared out among the local councils and the State Treasury.
In our case, the local councils are DTC, DDC and KCC.
The Channel Tunnel port toll, for example, would be shared out between the National Treasury and Shepway's local councils.
This public revenue port toll would be separate from the already existing port revenues which DHB cash in.
I am confident the Government will accept my proposals, and also my objections to the DHB privatisation submission in general, which is based on debt and borrowing in order to invest in all and sundry, in adventures completely unrelated to the Port, to then divide the income among shareholders (and possibly majority shareholders in particular).
My July 2012 representation is more substantial, being 12 pages long, but this is an outline of it.
I also mentioned in it some examples of needed regeneration in Dover, to prove that the one-off cash sum that DHB offers to Dover (£10 million), is by far not enough, nor the £1 million a year in dividends for the first 5 years.
Let's hope Gov. doesn't kick the decision on the DHB submission in the long grass.
Further in reference to your post, Gary, I also noted in my representation a contradiction in the DHB submission regards the motivation of DHB staff: to cut a long paragraph short, I wrote to the effect that, if DHB staff need further motivation by way of privatisation, then there must be something wrong in the way the Board's executives have been treating the staff in the past, and that this may require some form of Government inquiry.
The wording in respect to this last point was all in the conditional, of-course, as it is now, which would protect me from any form of "liable"Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 11 August 2012 20:21186849sorry alex the port toll issue arose about 10 years ago on here and was found to contravene european law.
k.c.c. raised it again about a year ago with our cobbled together people but nothing has been heard since. - 11 August 2012 20:34186854So that's your 'great' idea to save the Western Heights and regenerate the town - port tolls. Nothing new and can't really see how you expect it to go anywhere, else the people who looked into it before might have got somewhere...Been nice knowing you :)
- 11 August 2012 20:38186855Shame I missed this comment before Alexander....
"The best strategy I know is: who controls the Castle dominates the Port."
EH can barely open the Castle when there is more than a breeze - imagine how they would cope with wobbly sea !!!!!
Been nice knowing you :) - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 August 2012 20:40186857in a wibbly,wobbery way paul.as a cartain manchester band would roll with it.
- 11 August 2012 21:57186862Paul- this is obviously a reference to fire power-who controls the castle dominates the port. It's all in one of Winston Churchill's speeches somewhere! How anyone would relate that to political rather than military prowess, I have no idea...Never give up...
- 11 August 2012 22:02186863Now that port tolls are off the agenda for good-does this mean that DPPT have a new totally focussed and highly articulate supporter.Never give up...
- 11 August 2012 22:25186865Can I,from a personal and informed perspective,fully endorse what Gary Punton has to say.Forget party politics,from now on the onus of legacy falls now upon our shoulders,can we shirk that burden of responsibility,this is the core of the question that now faces Dover.
- 12 August 2012 00:26186866Richard, the term comes from me, haven't copied it from anywhere.
Weather Admiral Churchill said such words I don't know, but if so, it would be a sheer coincidence
My post no doubt has copy-right
Further to that, you're not the Government, so you can't claim that port tolls are off the agenda.
And no, I'm not a supporter of DPPT.
As for politics, haven't got a clue where they come into it.
It's true, Howard, that KCC have also brought up the topic of port tolls, they informed me as much over a year ago, explaining the details, and that they were lobbying the Government on this.
We remained in agreement that it's a jolly good idea, and I'm sure the new Localism strategy that Gov.UK wishes to introduce and see prosper will welcome this modern and innovative idea coming from KCC and me
The port toll would be the equivalent to a European road toll.
If DDC did bring the issue up 10 years ago, I'm sure they'll be happy to know that I brought it up two and a half years ago, and KCC later joined in.
After all, I am from Kent. Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 12 August 2012 00:35186867Paul, I've assured my mum that Gov. has told me my views are relevant.
I'm looking forward to a fantastic future of Prosperity.
I'm also a supporter of Eric Pickles.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 12 August 2012 08:48186889Alexander,an 'inquiry' would be music to my cauliflowered ears and unfortunately 'politics' has been the catalyst to much of what has been allowed to transpire at the Port.Also ,with regards Churchill ,I have a story to tell you,remind me one day .
- 12 August 2012 13:21186903John, my opinion is that the DHB submission has to do with venture capitalism rather than politics. It clearly proclaims the desire to invest in matters that have nothing to do with the Port. Risk investment made possible through privatisation AND subsequent borrowing.
So my view was, that this not only does not meet the criteria for Community satisfaction, but doesn't satisfy any criteria for running the Port.
Using the Port as a stake - an asset - to borrow money and invest in uncharted territory, in things unrelated to the Harbour, could end up bringing the Port in a state of insolvency if these investments went wrong and the money couldn't be paid back to the money-lenders, not to mention the shareholders.
I can't see the Government turning down this opinion and giving Dr. Goldfield the go-ahead.
Only let's hope they don't take ages to come to the decision and don't start another tortuous round of public consultations.
If they do, it will be the biggest waste of time in Dover's history, and frankly I'm getting fed-up!Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 August 2012 13:55186906GARY;
I'm sure from your working background there is no lecture required, nor what is so.
It was purely to make the point that there is only one option at the moment.
once(and if) that option is defeated then other options can be looked at.
is the way i understand itALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 12 August 2012 14:04186910Alex,in that context,I could not agree more.
- Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 August 2012 14:06186912Im sure that soon the cobbled together govt will make a decision on the DHB bid
sooner rather than later is called forALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 12 August 2012 15:26186919the consultation period has finished so no reason for more prevarication.
- Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 August 2012 16:07186921of course you are correct howardALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS - 12 August 2012 16:14186923Though wouldn't want a rushed decision without proper analysis, would we.
- 12 August 2012 18:33186940Ray, you are right, but this has been going on for 2 and a half years.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 12 August 2012 19:341869552.5 years vs DHB being around for 400 years.... no rush !Been nice knowing you :)