howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
stick with it colette it will grow on you after a time.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
The comments in the Mercury were much more scathing than on-line.
I went to see it for my self yesterday and I would like to say that in my view it is not inappropriate where it is. It is not as tacky as some have said and it does the job.
Richard is the only one in Dover who has got off his back-side and done something about tourism initiatives.
To buy a new information kiosk would cost thousands of pounds; as there isn't any money to buy a new one, is it better not to have one at all ? I don't think so.
All these negative comments have now scared away the greeters who were gong to help with the guided and Historic Walks - but not now; they were quite happy to help and man the kiosk until all these negative comments started, so once again, tourism and tourists lose out.
Tourism needs promoting; Dover needs to be a destination not a to-it-and-through-it Town.
The more information given out, the more informed people will be, the more informed people are, the more they enjoy their stay and the happier they are and will spread the word about Dover.
If they have to struggle to find anything, they won't come back. Richard is trying to make sure they do come back. Support his efforts, not destroy them.
Roger
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
Ah! Howard, I'm ageing here at the very thought of it
Still I will be popping over there a bit over the weekend so will take a look.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Roger - dont think anyone here has a problem with what is being done to promote tourism but there are ways of doing things and just because it is tourism doesnt mean that you get a free run to do whatever you want. Seems a great shame but dont think the Shaft will now be opened either.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
Why won't The Grand Shaft be opened?
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Because Tony, as far as I can determine, the Western Heights Preservation Society and the DDC Tourism Manager said so; against the advice of the Inspector for Ancient Monuments in Kent.
Richard needs to be punished for clearing and cleaning up the entrances - top and bottom, clearing the three staircases, cutting the grass, painting the facing walls and worst of all, painting lifesize soldiers in the Napoleonic-period uniform.
The entrance now looks cared for, interesting and inviting.
If the WHPS had no involvement in the decision to keep it closed to visitors, then I apologise to them, but that is what I've heard.
It is a crime that the GS is kept closed all year, apart from two week-ends.
Shouldn't we all be working to open up as many sites as possible ?
Bring as many visitors/tourists to Dover as we can ?
Tell the World (via the www) what we have here ?
Why punish someone for making a closed site (apart from those two week-ends mentioned above) look inviting and vibrant ?
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it does seem a great shame that all the parties involved cannot get their heads together and work towards keeping it open at least during the summer months.
people come from all over for the two weekends, most express surprise that it is not open more.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!
WHPS have absolutely no jurisdiction over the Grand Shaft - it is owned by DDC and managed by Dover Museum and WHPS have permission to open it up a couple of times a year to coincide with our events. WHPS has absolutely NOTHING to do with any decision, all we know is that it did not open on 1st April and discussions are ongoing with DDC about the 'work' that has been done.
Roger, I know you have apologised above, but please not spread incorrect information about a volunteer group that puts thousands of hours a year into trying to protect, promote and open up bits of our heritage that is ignored by most of it's owners.
As mentioned by everyone on here, we all want places to be opened more and we need the visitors to Dover, but you can't do such things to a Scheduled Ancient Monument/Listed Building without permissions...
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Roger, please take note of Paul's posting, your apology to WHPS is appropriate. WHPS had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the whole debacle, can I ask where you obtained this information from? I rather object to public mud slinging at an unpaid volunteer group which had zero involvement with the decisions leading to the current questionable state of the Shaft.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
See also the post from another volunteer Mandy on the front page.
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
So... nobody is objecting to Richard opening The Grand Shaft to allow visitors in. In my opinion what Richard has done is make an eyesore an eye catcher. He has caused no damage, and has made the entrance attractive and inviting so who is stopping it from being opened? It should now be opened.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
tony
you are a very brave man to voice an opinion on this one, i suspect that various individuals and organisations will be digging their heels in on this one.
my prediction is that we will not see it open again until the weekend in june.
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
From what I can ascertain Howard, nobody is holding their hands up to say why The Grand Shaft is not open.
It should be open now, Easter is a week away, we have cruise liners with tourists arriving in the town, what galls me is that when somebody tries to do something for the good of the town and to promote Dover there's a queue to find a way to stop them.
The Grand Shaft is owned by DDC, not English Heritage, though I understand they will obviously have an interest. Richard was given permission to open The Grand Shaft and make it attractive to visitors. Somebody's nose has been put out of joint and are doing their best to stop this happening.
The vital thing about making something attractive to visitors is ensuring it looks inviting. Richard has achieved this, the entrance area was all cleaned up, like it or not the painting of the soldiers has made it viewable from afar. If it took someone dressed as Mickey Mouse in drag to stand in the entrance to attract customers then so be it.
Stupid behind-the-scenes squabbling is doing nothing to help Dover use its resources to keep tourists in the area.
Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
That's a long post for me. Must get more lessons from Alexander
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
The simple fact is that it is a listed structure and part of a scheduled monument, much as i would personally like to get a bricky up to the redoubt to do some much overdue repairs there are laws that need to be complied with to ensure that what is done isnt to the long term detriment to our heritage. Same with the Shaft, the rule determined by english heritage need to be complied with. DDC itself may have broken these rules and as far as i know they are doing their best to undo what has happened.
Been nice knowing you :)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Even though I do not know all the facts, I tend to agree with Tony on this one. The shaft should be open even if there is bickering behind the scenes.
Tony, your post makes sense while some of Alexander's.............................................
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 662- Registered: 18 Mar 2008
- Posts: 325
Went down to the Seafront yesterday and noticed the Kiosk had been moved to a new position, actually it doesnt appear to be too bad in the new position, it was manned and although the seafront and Pier were busy no-one went to the Kiosk while I was there. Would be interested to get some feedback on the amount of visitors they get to the Kiosk?
I would just like to point out to all of you that have read this thread that early on we applauded Richard for his efforts and his good intentions but objected to its positioning. Richard does alot for Dover and I would not want him to think this was a personal attack. But I am glad it has been moved, it detracted from our beautiful seafront make over and the Channel Swimmers.
I was quoted in the Mercury as Dover Town Carnival Chairman, for the record I am not Chairman, I am Events Co-Ordinator for the Committee
and it reminded me to take a breath and count to ten before posting on the Forum in future, glad they didnt print the one about the sledgehammer
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 662- Registered: 18 Mar 2008
- Posts: 325
Oh no Jan, done it again
xx
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I will post no more on the subject, this is entirely a matter between Mr Mahony, Dover District Council and the Regional English Heritage Inspector of Monuments, and I am sure the outcome will be decided in due course.
WHPS will continue to open the Shaft as agreed with DDC for our open weekend on 11/12 June and Heritage Open Days in September.
We would appreciate it if people can quash any misinformation that is being spread about WHPS on this matter as we are not party to any discussions that are taking place.....
Been nice knowing you :)