howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
thanks for simplifying things tom as i was confused up to that point.
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
"Before the awakening, men undergo troubled dreams."
Should you be posting that before the watershed?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Tom's description resembles the beliefs of the Medieval Bogomils and Cathars.
The former lived in Bulgaria and Bosnia, generally among Slavic people's (the name being Slavic), as well as in other regions of the East;
the latter lived in southern France, northern Italy and northern Spain. The name may vary from area to area, but the Cathars were the most established in the West, specifically in southern France.
They also influenced some of the Troubador culture.
The Bogomils were established in particular in Bosnia, as the Bosnian royal family were believers in Bogomilism.
However, Gnosticism may also be found in some of the Apocryphal gospels (not the four Gospels of the New Testament).
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That said, gnostic come from the Greek "gnorizo" (using modern Greek grammar), meaning: to know.
It therefore means "knowledgeable".
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
There is no reason for saying, "Tom said". Tom just found a web site that offered to answer the question, "What is Gnosticism?"
Not that they got straight to the point either, but there you are. There are many sites less lucid though.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
The basis for religious discussions is:' My imaginary best friend is better than yours', and quoting the bible, or some unwritten constitution makes just as much sense as quoting what a newspaper has to say and accepting it as factual.
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
Is faith exclusive to religious doctorine? Maybe the gnostic idea that unless we look within ourselves we cannot judge others is a standard we could all appreciate.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I think the 'faith' part is being mug enough to believe the rubbish that organised religions expect people to swallow, but the non-judgemental idea, although sometimes very difficult in practice is the only decent way deal with people.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
more like brain washed into believing.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That's a good question, Lesley (Is faith exclusive to religious doctrine?).
I could give an answer, but it would mean giving away some secrets.
I know some secrets that KeithS doesn't know, because I haven't revealed these to him.
And I don't think it's going to happen any time soon!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
perhaps we should take a look at the unitarian "doctrine" put's a lot of other beliefs in the shade.
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
Alexander, gnostics believe that there have been many who have fallen at the last hurdle in their quest to be the next messiah, please tell me that you are not he?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Well that's a good observation, Lesley.
Assuming we are way out of reach of politics here, and on the Faith Schools thread, I may reveal an open secret:
THE Messiah is exclusively Jesus Christ.
Now this may get long, Lesley.
Some people detract the Christian Faith.
But for a Christian, only Christ Jesus can be the Saviour, and the Head of the Church, he being the only Gate to God Almighty (the Father).
This is why I had disputes with Keith S, stating mortal people cannot be "the head" of a Church.
Keith was giving lectures on queen and pope.
To give you a very summary version of what would otherwise be a long post, I believe in the Fair Lady, whose Church indicates the road leading to Christ's Church.
Mortal people cannot be "the Messiah", nor can divine Persons be "The Messiah", unless we are talking of Jesus in Person.
He alone among divine and mortals is The Messiah.
Therefore, if a Divine Person revealed knowledge to a common person, it would only be valid if it led to Christ's Cause.
This does not answer your previous question, "Is faith exclusive to religious doctrine?".
I will not reply here.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
From the dictionary
faith (fth) n.
1. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
2. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: e.g. the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
See also
su•per•sti•tion (ˌsu pərˈstɪʃ ən) n.
1. any blindly accepted belief or notion.
2. an irrational belief in or notion of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, etc.
3. a system or collection of such beliefs.
4. a custom or act based on such a belief.
5. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, esp. in connection with religion.
So
Faith can apply to things other than religion
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
Why is that then Howard, you still have to believe in a fairy tale being...
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
actually i don't barry but fully respect those that do.
i singled out unitarianism after visiting their church last heritage weekend and the current one and have been impressed by their philosophy of not forcing their beliefs on children and tjheir acceptance of other peoples beliefs.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
Ross has put it much better than I have, of course you can have faith in yourself, but the blind faith in a religion concerns me. The fact that people don't push their doctrine onto children at first seems admirable, but in reality that is just as things should be. You would never continue to force the idea of father christmas on a child after the age of about five, so why should any child be subjected to any of these fantasies ? I strongly object to my taxes paying for a teacher to spend time teaching my kids this nonsense, think of all the literacy and numeracy (reading, writing and sums to me) they could learn instead. (Thanks Dad, nice doss for one lesson a week and you want us to work instead). They even do 'A' levels in this rubbish !
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
with all due respect baz i don't see here anyone trying to force anyone into believing anything.unless someone has a backpack full of explosives and is trying to hitch a lift to heathrow.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I must be missing the point of faith schools then.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
So are you an atheist, Barrie?