howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
completely wrong there chris - the main debating point was raised in posts 12 and 13.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
I thought that was what I said?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Sadly schools stopped educating children a long time ago
The vast majority of schools teach/drill kids to pass exams leading to a narrow knowledge and bland conformity
Faith Schools start with the narrow knowledge and bland conformity to their world view and encourage/deliver nothing else to the detriment of the child - to my mind this nonsense is a form of institutionalised child abuse
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
It cannot be against the law to teach children that Creation is a basis of Faith. Adults have the right to teach their children about God and creation, and to send them to faith schools.
The teaching of the Christian Faith should be present in British schools, without brainwashing from atheists. Full stop!
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
"It is a wide subject and worthy of more wide ranging discussion than just a lot of bad jokes (and bad science - single cells are supremely adaptable)".
Thankyou Chris for your intelligence.
Never give up...
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
But Alexander-the question was really 'should Muslim faith be taught in British schools' -nobody has a problem with the Christian Faith(s) being taught in the same-those that do surely must be in the minority.
Never give up...
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Alex each to their own
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Richard - my personal view is that all religious faiths are dangerous and should not be taught in schools funded by the state. I am however more than happy for the state to teach morals and ethics.
If parents wish to indoctrinate their children into a set of religious beliefs that is of course their right
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Alexander, the whole of society tends towards religious brainwashing. Schools do still teach RE, even state schools use hymns etc constantly, shopping is restricted on Sunday's because of religious sensibilities and on and on. At the same time Atheists, most from religious families - my own parents used to pack me off to 'Sunday school, who have actually considered the matter and formed their own opinion, are considered fair game. If you question other peoples faith it is considered an attack on their religious freedom and yet it is OK to attack Atheism.
An American Atheist chat show once had a caller who said he had conclusive proof that there was a god. The presenters said that they would love to hear it and the caller said - you will love this - "it says so in the Bible". If you took all your opinions from Tom Sawyer you would be considered narrow minded but if you take all your opinions from the Bible.....................
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
"The teaching of the Christian Faith should be present in British schools, without brainwashing from atheists. Full stop!"
To me that is indoctrination and should not happen, religion of ALL kinds should be taught.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Just for Alexander, an episode of the Atheist Experience where they (sort of) discuss the very point you make in post 2
[URL][/URL]
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, the danger, as I perceive it, is not that atheists are fair game, but rather that atheism is attempting to gradually outlaw the Christian Faith, from schools, churches, literature.
Christians do not force atheists to become Christians, but atheists should not try to force Christians into silence.
Christianity is a Faith that spreads from generation to generation and through communication. Trying to ban children in schoolos from learning about the Faith is not on.
An atheist who wants to make a public issue, through an article, book or speech, has the means of conveying their message, but should not try to silence Christianity by banning it.
The original topic of the thread about Muslim teaching in regards to Creation spontaneously leads to the topic of Christian teaching, which also teaches Creation. The theme of the whole thread is: are we created by God or not? Christians and Muslims believe we are.
It's not about how old the Earth is, but whether it has been created by God, regardless of thousands of millions or even billions of years ago.
Ross, I believe it would be extremely dangerous to try to ban the teaching of Creation from schools. Am atheist state is doomed to failure!
Neither would I ever support one.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
When I was at school we were taught about the beliefs of faiths all around the world. We spent a year in A level RE studying the basic beliefs of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Humanism and even Zoroastrianism amongst others. Even though the teacher was ordained, none were given prominence or were told any was the correct interpretation. And it was fascinating.
It taught us to be tolerant of other cultures as it gave us an appreciation of their central tenets. Above all, it taught how utterly preposterous, ignorant and arrogant it is to believe that any particular group has the universal answers based upon their geographical location and cultural heritage.
This is how I'd like faith to be taught in schools, not the dangerous single faith blinkered approach, but embracing global cultural diversity in this way. Then the kids can make their mind up.
Strangely, the study of so many beliefs probably fuelled my atheism (combined with a fossil collection), but I'm so glad we had those classes.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
an excellent and well considered post phil.
one of the few rational ones on the subject.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Nobody is trying to "outlaw" the Christian faith just trying to get a bit of common sense to it. Christianity, like Islam, Atheism etc, is a faith and as such is a personal opinion. No faith should be taught at primary level where the pupils are expected to take everything as fact and therefore it is wrong to put Jesus was the son of god on the same level as two and two is four and plants need sunlight and water to grow.
Creation is a faith thing, with no logical or scientific basis, and any teaching of it should be left to RE lessons at secondary level, where it can be discussed along with other myths or religious theories.
By the way, a faith is something you hold to be true and Atheism qualifies because I, along with far more than theists would like to realise, firmly believe that there is no such thing as god nor does the universe need one, although clearly many people do.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, atheism is not a faith. It denies the existence of Faith.
Atheism tries to expel Faith from the class-room which infants attend, knowing full well that infants need to learn the Christian Faith in our Country so they do not become atheists.
Atheism qualifies for nothing. It means in fact nothing!
The emblem of the Town Council of Dover is Saint Martin of Tours, a Christian emblem, and by Town Constitution we are a Christian Town.
In virtue of our Town Emblem, Dover Town Council rejects atheism.
No-one can dispute this!
Your views are not conform with Dover Town Council!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Sorry Alexander, but when you are wrong you do it in spectacular style. You obviously do not read the posts you are commenting on very well either.
How insulting is it to constantly take the attitude that only you and your narrow christian theories are right and every one else doesn't matter. The only thing Atheism seeks to dispel is the god concept. Some of us prefer to see a world of huge, fascinating and often beautiful diversity, a world in which people respect eachother for who they are and not just who their god is. We also see the world as the place we all live and which we want to see better itself, rather than just a training ground for when you are dead.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
chris well said.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Chris
Why think to 'dispel' anything?. You believe in what you want to believe in and leave others the choice to have their own beliefs.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Marek, possibly not the best choice of words and I quite agree that everyone should be free to believe what they wish. The point I was trying to get across was that a faith is just that, a "faith", and has no place being taught as fact to young children. Not teaching them about gods at too early an age does not make them theists or atheists, it just allows them to grow with open minds. Doubtless many will follow the faith of their parents and others will later join other religions, just as they do now, I am just a firm believer in giving the space to make their own choices.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
