Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,when stack is on they take tap off,.thus resulting when they [the police] send lorries down to the port it often block a great swath of the A20,from the port to capel..along with the round abouts are not policed.
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,294
Well,things certainly moved quickly at Manston. Due in part I suppose to Ray (Robocop) Mallon being brought in. Middlesborough's loss is Manston's gain. Still a damn stupid idea though.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
COULD GO INTO USE TODAY P.O. HAVE TAKEN SHIP OFF RUN.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I didn't realise that was the same Ray Mallon, he does get about.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Interesting piece by Sir Roger Gale on his Facebook page.
Only a bureaucrat with no understanding of the geography and road systems of East Kent or a complete idiot would consider, for more than a few seconds, Manston Airport as a suitable location for a lorry park to relieve the pressure on "Operation Stuck". It is the second-worst location in the area. The worst, of course, is Port Ramsgate. Ramsgate Harbour has very limited capacity and road access that was purpose- built to carry traffic to a few RoRo ferries a day but is completely unsuited to the long-term storage of more than a relatively few moderately sized trucks at best. In another context we will return to the freight potential of both Manston Airport and Port Ramsgate but we face, immediately, a real problem that requires the benefit of sensible and practical solutions.
On the English side of the Channel it has become clear now, as if it has not been blindingly clear for years, that the use of the bottom end of the M20 as a location to store backed-up freight traffic is at best a short-term sticking-plaster remedy where what is needed is major surgery. The current issue of economic migrants is one that has to be addressed at a mainland pan-European level but there hosts of other reasons - foul weather, the suspension for emergency reasons of Channel tunnel traffic and unacceptably frequent industrial action in France to name but three - why cross-Channel traffic can be disrupted.
Kent County Council and successive Governments have, over years, ducked the requirement to create permanent lorry parks on the M2 to serve Dover and at Junction 11 on the M20 to serve the Channel Tunnel. On a nightly basis trucks are parked in every available layby and on every safe verge and slip-road because there is no serviced area in which to stop. Continental truckers use the hedgerows as lavatories and have nowhere to wash or to get beverages or food until they reach the service stations further up - or down - the line. The suggestion that to provide proper facilities would be to take green fields to create large areas of largely unused tarmac misses the point. Not only at "stack" times but on a daily basis there is a need to offer the sort of Air de Repos that you will find at regular intervals on most Continental motorways. We need to remove articulated clutter from our roadsides and create a decent environment for those who convey goods by road to and from Europe. From that starting point it is not rocket science to create additional and landscaped space to meet emergency needs.
All of that, though, begs the real question. The solution to the twin problems of industrial action at Calais and of economic migration - as very distinct from genuine asylum seekers - lies not mainly or even with the Government of the United Kingdom but fairly and squarely with the Government of France and with a European Commission that pays great attention to the right of "Freedom of Movement" just until that "movement" relates to the rights of British and continental businesses and travellers to move goods and people freely between the British Isles and mainland Europe. At that point the European Commission and those British Members of the European Parliament who, while elected to hold the Commission to account make much noise while taking very little critical action, are strangely supine.
If you are a British motorist travelling through France you may be fined for not carrying a high-viz jacket or a warning triangle or some spare light bulbs. If you are a striking French seafarer, however, it would appear that you can create a bonfire of car tyres in the middle of major roads leading to the ports and railheads with absolute impunity.
Likewise, because of the Schengen Agreement that has removed most, but not all, of the borders within mainland Europe, it is possible and permissible to travel from the Greek or Italian Islands or, in the case of France, from Martinique on the other side of the Atlantic, without facing a single border check until you reach the United Kingdom Frontier Controls at the Gare du Nord in Paris, the Channel Tunnel check-in or the port of Calais. The time has surely come for the Commission to acknowledge that the Schengen Agreement has created more problems than it has solved and to re-introduce frontier checks, like a ship`s watertight compartments, throughout the Member States of the European Union.
The real, and long-term solution, of course, is for a United Nations that finds it easy to criticise a "discriminatory" United Kingdom and a European Union that prefers to treat "The jungle" at Calais as a British problem, to instead get to the root of living standards and real oppression in Syria and Egypt, of course, and in counties like Sudan and Ethiopia and Somalia and throughout North Africa so that there is no need for desperate young and mainly men to allow themselves to be trafficked by international criminals while in search of a better life.
That will have to be done but it will take much time and money and effort. In the meantime the UK cannot and must not be held hostage by France and Brussels ever again. We have South Coast ports - and Ramsgate, while needing dredging, is one-such - that can and should be helped contribute alternative routes to the Dover-Calais run on a permanent basis. We also have Manston Airport which, as a freight hub, can and should be used to relieve some of the pressure on the demand for the import and export of, particularly, perishable goods. The writing is on the wall: in the national interest we can, and must, make the very most of our transport infrastructure to meet current and future needs and to offer resilience in times of stress. These are not assets that we can afford to squander.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,387
I think the transforming of Manston has already started, fencing and white-lining.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,387
http://www.dover-express.co.uk/f/story-27559442-detail/story.html
From Manston, freight will use the A256 and A2 to Dover.
Surely lorries should be sent up to Brenley Corner and down the A2?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Both routes have single carriageway sections of similar length with several pinch points. Sir Roger is right. The Manston experiment is asinine and I predict it will cause further massive disruption without helping the Ashford/Maidstone problems one jot.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,387
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Maps which the drivers from Romania and Turkey ( who are barely literate in their own languages) will have studied and committed to memory.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,387
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it will lead to one thing...............congestion.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It will lead to foreign drivers milling around in total confusion.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
Whichever committee of apparatchiks came up with this plan had no idea or totally ignored the congestion on the A249 when non-freight traffic was diverted that way during the last Stack - add in the Dover freight traffic and a breakdown/accident or two and it will be gridlock, just in a different place.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
TAP is operating this afternoon.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,387
The are loads of lorries parked up on the slip road onto the A2 from the Whitfield bypass roundabout this morning.
It's bad enough that they fill all the lay-bys, but actually parking on road like that? Why are they getting away with that?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It's often like that Karlos. At night they sometimes even park on the bridge between the two roundabouts. The police do practically b* all about it although I have noticed that in the last few days they have coned off the hatched areas beside the emergency run offs on Jubilee Way to stop trucks parking up on there.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
they park on the slip road from Alkham valley onto A20, and the next junction all along the hard should sometimes upto the Tesco's junction. Think it mainly when stack on and they probably run out off driving hours.
Had fun today getting of the A20 at Capel as the silly drivers parked on the yellow hatched area, but had nipped through a gap before that and passed two of the drivers watering the verge. They should put some porta loos along that part of the A20 especially if the traffic lights in operation.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We all agree that Manston is not the answer but the alternatives that Nigel offers are non starters.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/warning-over-policing-of-manston-41904/Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Why Howard are Folkestone Racecourse and Kent Showground non starters?
The showground at Detling does get used at other times of the year for events so might not always be available but with the Racecourse I would have thought the main problem would be nimbyism.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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