Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Thanks Darren for the clarification, I suppose I was hoping that DTC would not be stupidly stubbon and ignore the suggestion.
My apologies Howard.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
It was a bit shambolic but as one of the councillors stated they are to consider the application as it has been submitted so there was no real reason that they could not deny it. One reason that was put forward very well by a councillor was the fact that both the memorial and DTC building are tied together as grade II listed and would the flagpole actually be detrimental to those as it was designed by a veteran from Dover and of local and national importance (if they had refused on these grounds it would of blocked any further change, crafty councillors). This was when it got even sillier in that another couple of councillors inferred that the one who raised this was anti flying of the union flag and not obviously listening to what he was saying (There is a flag next to it on the town hall). As usual politics were at play and ducking and diving which was fun to watch, even funnier was the old woman who tried to interject several times even after she had spoken earlier. Sadly that group just made it harder to hear the planning committee and what they were saying at times, as a bit like the grandparents at a kids football match.
Even funnier was the 'free running' problem that has suddenly emerged that may be a risk to health and safety. Amazing how some stuff is raised as such a big issue and yet things that actually do effect things are ignored.
Politics, shameful useless politics.
One important point to raise about the whole thing is that if there are over 4000 supporters of the flag pole why did less than 0.2% of them show up at the meeting in support off it and all old enough to have come in on the age concern bus. This is after talk of how much support there is for this and the 4,000 signatory being shouted about so often.
Either way they have a flag pole now, even if it is to the side they still have somewhere to fly a flag, a compromise for all which hopefully will be the last of this.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Some interesting points raised by Darren and Ray, a lot of people have a personal agenda and are using the flag to bash others. This report below suggests that the councillors disagreed totally with the siting of the flagpole but passed it with the suggestion that another application could be made later to move it. Yet more bureaucracy.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/plan-for-flagpole-approved-31841/Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
As usual they leave things out like the councillor who opposed the putting up of the flag pole even there, as usual same old objectiveness from the local papers. The climbing issue is a bit blown up, how many instances have there been of other flag poles in the area being climbed, been recorded? Best remove any guttering from the area as well, or bins from out back as they may be climbed on, should of left the benches in the workshop as they will be climbed on
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
The personal agenda on all sides has been the problem from the start, added that there is the personal dislike of certain people on both sides of the argument.
Darren, I find your remark about age rather insulting, many of the young and middle aged population of Dover also supported the flag, seems your prejudices are showing.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The best comment was from the councillor who said that "Dover must have its own flagpole".
Presumably the union flag on top of the town hall is attached to a giant cotton bud.
Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
Not a prejudice but an observation with humour. But as your reply indicates that there are some younger people who support the flag (I wonder if they are local free runners
) it just highlights from my comment that such a small showing from people who support the flagpole showed up, and demographically they were of the older end (how else shall I describe them like cheese and are extra mature
) You cannot say about the age when there was no one middle aged there (around 35yrs old I would say) or younger as I was clearly talking about the meeting.
Or was it the comment about grandparents at a football match? If so it was funny (when they were calling out stuff and missing the point that was being made) and frustrating trying to listen to people talk about something with constant chatter and jeering. At times it felt like I had houses of parliament in action in front of me. Maybe would of been better to have described them as back benchers?
Jan apologies, it was tongue in cheek so post not so serious, but as known they refer to themselves as angry grannies.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Just re-read your post Darren and I now realise you were using humour, I think I must be having a grumpy day.
I used to fully support and was a member of the angry grannies but one of them did not like me disagreeing with her so I left them to it.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
Thank you for that Jan, it is often difficult to see how people are expressing themselves at times with just words.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 1338- Registered: 9 Sep 2014
- Posts: 79
Darren wrote:It was a bit shambolic but as one of the councillors stated they are to consider the application as it has been submitted so there was no real reason that they could not deny it. One reason that was put forward very well by a councillor was the fact that both the memorial and DTC building are tied together as grade II listed and would the flagpole actually be detrimental to those as it was designed by a veteran from Dover and of local and national importance (if they had refused on these grounds it would of blocked any further change, crafty councillors). This was when it got even sillier in that another couple of councillors inferred that the one who raised this was anti flying of the union flag and not obviously listening to what he was saying (There is a flag next to it on the town hall). As usual politics were at play and ducking and diving which was fun to watch, even funnier was the old woman who tried to interject several times even after she had spoken earlier. Sadly that group just made it harder to hear the planning committee and what they were saying at times, as a bit like the grandparents at a kids football match.
Even funnier was the 'free running' problem that has suddenly emerged that may be a risk to health and safety. Amazing how some stuff is raised as such a big issue and yet things that actually do effect things are ignored.
Politics, shameful useless politics.
One important point to raise about the whole thing is that if there are over 4000 supporters of the flag pole why did less than 0.2% of them show up at the meeting in support off it and all old enough to have come in on the age concern bus. This is after talk of how much support there is for this and the 4,000 signatory being shouted about so often.
Either way they have a flag pole now, even if it is to the side they still have somewhere to fly a flag, a compromise for all which hopefully will be the last of this.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Good to see Augusta send her messenger to endorse Darren's comments.
Guest 1338- Registered: 9 Sep 2014
- Posts: 79
I attended the meeting last night & I am disgusted at the way Darren has reported it, I do not find it humorous to insult people even if you do, I always think that you know when you've got the better of someone when they start to insult you. It was not in the least bit shambolic it was an interesting informative meeting, you Darren are suffering from a case of sour grapes. Putting the flag pole In the corner is insulting almost as if you wish to hide it, on Rememberance Sunday the Mayor & Councillors will stand with their backs to it - even the Queen would not do that. As for inferring that we were acting like Grandparents at a kids football match let me tell you that my Grandchildren have better manners than you & your ageist remarks you are not funny. Let's face it 4500 people did sign the petition wether they turn up or not is irrelevant, even the petition run by the Council resulted in the people wanting a flag at the Memorial - you can't argue with that. You can hope all you like for an end to this but sadly it's unlucky for you as the fight goes on until DTC follow the correct protocol for flying a Union Flag at a War Memorial, I,m not an expert at this but I can assure you we have two experts who if people like you were to listen could learn a lot, maybe you shouldn't have so much to say on the matter when you know so little. You & Ms Patricia Carr know absolutely nothing about the correct positioning of Union Flags.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Changed your mind again.
Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
Sounds more like sour grapes from you more than anything. And as for manners shame they were not practiced by your lot last night with all the heckling and noise so please practice what you preach. Or do you not realise what you are posting as copying and pasting from someone else's script
Guest 1338- Registered: 9 Sep 2014
- Posts: 79
Is that comment meant for me Harold Mcsweeney ? If so what do you mean ?
Guest 1338- Registered: 9 Sep 2014
- Posts: 79
Please refrain from accusing me of bad manners, my words are my own I do not use other people's script, I speak for myself no one else - who do you speak for I wonder ?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
157
It was indeed Lyn.
Yours sincerely
Harold.
Incidentaly on the subject of good manners who were you addressing in `158?
Guest 1348- Registered: 20 Sep 2014
- Posts: 276
Unlike you I am more than capable of speaking for myself. And not accusing you of bad manners telling you that you had bad manners last night as you people were like football supporters. And not using others script, you reposted my quote?