Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Neil Moors wrote:SKS has to judge the mood music. He doesn't want to look like he is the last to the party on this when others change their stance (which is happening right now).
I'd prefer a leader who took a stance they thought was right.
Reginald Barrington and Jan Higgins like this
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
I’ve pasted Labour’s long amendment to the SNP’s Gaza-ceasefire motion below.
Could be a real game changer! LOL!
“That this House believes that an Israeli ground offensive in Rafah risks catastrophic humanitarian consequences and therefore must not take place; notes the intolerable loss of Palestinian life, the majority being women and children; condemns the terrorism of Hamas who continue to hold hostages; supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7th October cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; demands that rapid and unimpeded humanitarian relief is provided in Gaza; demands an end to settlement expansion and violence; urges Israel to comply with the International Court of Justice’s provisional measures; calls for the UN Security Council to be meet urgently; and urges all international partners to work together to establish a diplomatic process to deliver the peace of a two-state solution, with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable Palestinian state, including working with international partners to recognise a Palestinian state as a contribution to rather than outcome of that process, because statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people and not in the gift of any neighbour.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
And the Government amendment
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Big day for the Speaker. Government motion should mean that Labour motion won't be called, meaning that Labour will have to abstain - or vote for either the government or SNP. Maybe Speaker will allow all amendments given the context.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
Both sides of the House gobbledegooking for all they're worth, without the slightest indication they know what's going on.
You love to see it.
victor matcham likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Neil Moors wrote:Big day for the Speaker. Government motion should mean that Labour motion won't be called, meaning that Labour will have to abstain - or vote for either the government or SNP. Maybe Speaker will allow all amendments given the context.
And so he did - quite right too and well-predicted Neil.
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Oh dear! If the BBC report (
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68362405) is to be believed, one could be forgiven for thinking that some MPs and parties thought that parliamentary convention was more important that the subject matter of the motions. In my view the debacle was caused by the "government" saying it would not take part in protest and I regret that Mr Speaker decided to apologise. Not democracy's finest hour.
victor matcham likes this
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
FACT CHECK: The British Parliament has no power to implement a "ceasefire" in the Middle East.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Remarkable scenes and the end result, Labour manages to own the first Commons approved motion calling for an immediate ceasefire.
I do have huge sympathy for the Speaker, he could see through the political game playing and tried to do his best for everyone. It backfired and he apologised. As Bob says, the irony in all this is that it has no relevance anyway.
victor matcham likes this
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
Sadly all this was due to your leaders incompetence
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
#1312 - which incompetent leader are we talking about?
#1310 - further fact: opposition motions have no power to change government policy.
Ross Miller likes this
(Not my real name.)
victor matcham- Registered: 5 Oct 2021
- Posts: 1,075
All are the same leaders rubish.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
Gesture politics.
Regardless of the gesture's intended target (who knows? I doubt they themselves know) it's evident that the rest of the world (and I don't mean official EU or US) view the behaviour of our leaders as destructive, duplicitous and hilarious in equal measure, and a very good reason to make their alliances elsewhere.
Button, Captain Haddock and Ross Miller like this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,878
This has just proved that the majority of MPs care more for show than common sense. What a childish way to behave, the only one to act with any dignity was the Speaker regardless of whether his actions were right or wrong.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
All rather predictable?
'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'
Dear Mr Speaker,
In January 2020, you wrote to my predecessor establishing a procedure by which he could record his views regarding any of your decisions which he felt comprised a substantial breach of the Standing Orders or a departure from long-established conventions. You asked him to place in the Library a note of any such view and you undertook to make the House aware if he did so.
I am today exercising the opportunity to place on record my view that the decision to allow an official opposition spokesperson to speak and to move an amendment before a Government minister in response to an SNP spokesperson moving their opposition day motion represents a departure from the long-established convention for dealing with such amendments on opposition days, governed by Standing Order No 31.
Where an orderly Government amendment to leave out some words of the motion and insert others is tabled and selected, the expectation is that such an amendment is then moved by the minister in the second speech of the debate and, once the amendment has been moved, the Standing Order provides that the first question considered by the House at the end of the debate must be on the text of the original motion. If that is negatived, the question is put on the Government's amendment.
When introducing the proposal in 1979 the Leader of the House said the arrangements were "so that a vote could take place on the Opposition's own motion" (Hansard 31 October 1979 vol 972 c1278). The procedural impact of the decision taken today is that the first division is likely to be on the official opposition's amendment rather than on the SNP's motion; and, depending on the outcome of any such division, it is possible that the House will not be able to vote on the SNP motion (nor on the Government's alternative proposition).
In taking this step, I recognise that:
a) Your decision is not specifically precluded by any Standing Order;
b) The Speaker and his Deputies have complete discretion regarding the order in which to call Members to speak;
c) The Speaker has discretion over which amendments to select;
d) There have been two occasions in the last 25 years or so when an amendment has been moved by an opposition party Member from a party other than the one to which the day had been allotted (as well as one when a government backbencher moved an amendment) and on one of those occasions, the Official Opposition Member was called to move his amendment before a minister was called — however, in those few circumstances, no Government amendment had been tabled; and
e) You have been motivated by giving the House what you considered to be the widest choice of decisions on alternative propositions, on a subject of immense importance, on which people in and outside the House have the strongest of views.
Nevertheless, I know that you understand why I feel compelled to point out that long- established conventions are not being followed in this case. I am grateful to you for making every effort to discuss this with me extensively and for taking full account of my views when reaching your decision, which I know was not an easy one, and which of course is one for you to make.
Yours sincerely,
Tom Goldsmith
Clerk of the House
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
We've come to this.
Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the speaker, responding to Flynn.
He says he made a judgment call that did not end up where he expected. He regrets it. He apologises to the SNP. He has made a mistake. He says he will allow an emergency debate under standing order 24 on this.
He will defend all MPs, he says.
He says he never ever wants to pick up a folder to pick up a note about an MP being murdered.
He says he has been shown material that is “absolutely frightening” about the threats to MPs.
And if his mistake is to look after MPs, he is guilty. He has a duty to protect people, he says.
All MPs are at risk, he says. He had serious meetings with the police yesterday. Heading into the election, there are threats."We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Can't fault this bit of BBC reporting: "However last night's vote has no effect on UK policy and still less on the situation on the ground in Gaza".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-68349957(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
