Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
According to Starmer there are 8 times as many women with a penis in Britain as there are women in Stevenage.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Keith Sansum1 wrote:If only I had that power Lol
If interested in Neils view on members of his party being unable to select there own candidate
Is this about Corbyn in particular or the selection process more generally?
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Just linked your two posts, Keith.
On Corbyn, the party leadership has decided that they need to move away from him as a matter of political strategy. The leadership will stand or fall by that decision. In situations like this you tend to have to trust that the leadership knows what it's doing.
More generally, I do believe local party members should have a strong say on prospective candidates - but again, the leadership should be able to veto in exceptional circumstances. The default should be let local members lead the process unless there is a good reason not to. What I'm not a fan of is gaming the system - all female/male shortlists etc.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
' the leadership should be able to veto in exceptional circumstances'
You make it sound like Ireland where they were allowed to keep voting until they got the 'correct' result!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
There you go then Neil
So across the country local members were excluded by the leadership
And exceptional circumstances ? Used to exclude a broader church
Best in mind Labour was built on having this broad set of views , no longer it seems.
The desperation to get into number ten, ditching any policies , being better at being Tories than the Tories themselves all lands us with Same old.
Starker has had his opportunity to show the direction he wishes to go , and really being a local member was the one time you could at least pick your candidates , no longer the case.
I think , Labour MAY form a govt, but it will only be Labour in name.
Politics is looking grim at the moment .
About the only part we agree on Neil is your final part on woman only shortylists
There are some fantastic women candidates , but over the years, pushed by Harriet Harman
Women only shortlists came in and locally a good , well respected councillor Reg Hansell was unable to stand for his seat only women .
And anpopular woman replaced him , who was a crap cllr purely because she was a women.
I did , as did the local party disagree on women only shortlisted candidates , and appealed also to regional party but sadly it was pushed by ex Labour leader M Eddy at the time who was less than truthful throughout .
I think it should be on ability as local Labour even the women supported that view , apart of course from one individual e rowbotham who would benefit from W.O.S. Not through ability !
Futures looking grim
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
What I mean is that you don't exclude person A, because central office would prefer person B - so imagine a scenario where the local membership put forward someone who the leadership think is totally unsuitable/will cause controversy, then it is reasonable for them to pull rank. It should be the exception and not the rule though. Looks like we are going to see lots of this in the Tory party with musical chairs on selection as they all dash for safe seats.
I think you're too dismissive of "getting into number 10" as that's literally the whole point. Where we are probably closer than you think is that once into number 10, you can start tacking to the left more easily. That's where you'll find some of the Corbyn style policies coming into play. But you have to get there incrementally otherwise you scare the horses.
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Neil Moors wrote:I think you're too dismissive of "getting into number 10" as that's literally the whole point. Where we are probably closer than you think is that once into number 10, you can start tacking to the left more easily. That's where you'll find some of the Corbyn style policies coming into play. But you have to get there incrementally otherwise you scare the horses.
I'd prefer a party to convince me of their policies, so that I can vote knowing that a manifesto will stay doing what it says on the tin. Naive, I know, but when I order a sausage, I expect to get a sausage.
Reginald Barrington likes this
(Not my real name.)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Dear me Keith your misogyny is shining through in your last post, do you really dislike & despise women in politics as much as your post suggests?
Neil Moors wrote:What I mean is that you don't exclude person A, because central office would prefer person B - so imagine a scenario where the local membership put forward someone who the leadership think is totally unsuitable/will cause controversy, then it is reasonable for them to pull rank. It should be the exception and not the rule though. ..
It is the thin end of the wedge, it ends up excluding everyone who disagrees with the party heirarchy
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Button wrote:I'd prefer a party to convince me of their policies, so that I can vote knowing that a manifesto will stay doing what it says on the tin. Naive, I know, but when I order a sausage, I expect to get a sausage.
You can only introduce policy with the will of the people. I'm not saying say one thing and do another - rather, you build the case from within government to the point that you take people with you. What changes is the press, for example, giving you a fairer hearing as they finally give up on the current government.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
I must be more sceptical than you, past experience suggests to me that once they're in, they don't enquire any longer as to what I think. I had a similar issue with the EU Referendum, which came across as a choice between sausage and not-a-sausage, which could've been anything really. That, plus a suspicion that HMG would muck up any change.
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Captain Haddock wrote:' the leadership should be able to veto in exceptional circumstances'
You make it sound like Ireland where they were allowed to keep voting until they got the 'correct' result!
Alternatively, you could just prorogue parliament if you don't think you'll get your own way.
Button likes this
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
I actually meant the sort of thing that'll get you botted out of parliament on disciplinary grounds anyway, not a basic disagreement about policy.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
In the words of Momentum:-
'These suspensions have come alongside waves of proscriptions, operating under an Orwellian 'retroactivity' rule.
Members have been expelled for once liking a Facebook post from a proscribed group... before it was proscribed.
Even the UNISON President'.
Personally I think Jezza has been treated shabbily by Keith and he could have weathered the storm, if any, by having JC stand.
In his pomp JC was almost like a supergroup selling out the O2 and whose every word was hung onto by the press.
Nowadays he's more of an ex pop star with a small but fanatical following who might sell out the Astor Theatre to a load of oldies like me.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
Ross
As usual you like to mislead but suppose that's all part of the forum .
Just on women .o.s.
Most women in the Labour party locally recognised they would prefer to be elected on ability rather than just because of being a women.
It was women in the local party who led the charge to try to stop W.O.S.
If the party itself is outdated on its views to this issue then root them out.
Button
I think your assessment sums Labour up.
Bob
I think today it's a little unclear as to support across the country on JC .
There are a number of women in local Labour that have held many top jobs in the party and been local councillors , and in the past selected as parliamentary candidates .
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
I believe that a number of local wimmin in the party, having seen the calibre of the males, would have been more than happy if selection was on merit!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Corbyn is in the past. Not really bothered about Labour's selection processes Just please no more of these con men.
Credit to Private Eye.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Sorry Ray but
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65193097
As someone once said: whack-a-mole.
(Not my real name.)
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
They just cant help themselves
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
They really do need to clean there act up
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
They know it's all coming to an end and feels a bit like a free for all now.
