howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
This is possibly our most surreal thread so far with John refusing to say whether he supports the idea of open borders and Peter ingloriously expecting an answer. The legacy of Harold Pinter lives on.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Good morning.I hate to say it maybe Howard is right on #21.
Howard has mentioned the good work of Peter and John in his ward..Don't they realise the good work they have done will be a distant memory in 2020.Charlie Chuckles must of did somersaults of joy in his house in St Margarets when he saw the pictures on the websites of the Mercury/Express and this weeks'Express.The pictures will be used.Internet never dies.
Its a fact,Peter,John,Pam,Susan Hill and others of Dover and Deal Labour Party marched in support of Open Dover,Open Europe,Open Borders and Refugees welcome here..The pictures have given the answer,that they support Open Borders.
I know Peter is ambitious and he may be Labour parlimentary candidate but I thought he would of learnt by his experience of being Will Scobies' campaign manager for over 2 months in Thanet before May7th.
I am for a strong opposition to hold the Government to account,it is essential for our democracy..Labour have a death wish at the moment,after the drubbing of Ed Miliband,they elect a man who in the past supported the IRA and will be 72 years of age in 2020..Dover Labour are a in the same death wish cycle,by marching under the banner of Open Borders..If you look at the comments of Jan,Brian,Howard on this thread,all decent moderate people..Dover Labour by supporting Open Borders have gone against the wishes of decent moderate people..I can understand if they marched to support our NHS or fight the Housing crisis.The Housing waiting list for social housing in Dover District is at over 4,000 people/families.Scandalous.The other day I went past the soup kitchen in the Dover.I thought to myself this 2015, people are sleeping in doorways and relying on a soup kitchen..Peter and John march for them.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,705
This is why so many are switched off by party politics
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
Nice to hear from you again Ross.
With regards to this threads subject matter, I never expect a straight forward answer from a politician and John Heron has proved the point.
By going on that march certain councillors have proved they put their party ahead of the majority of people. It might be a good idea to remember that most people are no longer sheep who blindly follow whichever party their parents voted for but have educated minds of their own..
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
I to was amazed to see those pictures in the Dover Express .Like Peter states if the Labour Councillors were marching re The NHS or Housing shortages I could have understood .They should be more concerned about the problems we have in our District .When X servicemen have to almost beg to be rehoused ,elderly people have to wait for a Doctors appointment and some of our schools in Dover have so many pupils who require tuition to speak English .When they do master English they go home and speak their parents native tongue.
I watch the media see those children fleeing their home land, but as a nation we should resolve as to why ?A lot of those young men should stay and fight .I think Brian mentioned this.
Those councillors who marched will not be so happy when their children cannot get a house ,school place or a Doctors appointment.
DDC have agreed to take twelve families to be placed around the District.
Currently most of the families that have settled here in Dover stay in Dover .They donot choose to live in the villages.
Some of those Councillors are my friends but on this issuie I cannot agree with them.
Guest 1590- Registered: 22 Oct 2015
- Posts: 86
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
OK John I accept that you won't answer the question of whether you believe in open borders but you state in post 13 that you went on the march because of the two demonstrations by the far right previously. On both of those far left activists were out in equal numbers roughly so that argument doesn't hold up.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
Exactly Sue.
Deviating slightly I have never really understood the point of marches with all the external troublemakers they seem to acquire. Are they simply a way of venting frustration as they seem to achieve little or nothing except disruption to joe public and publicity.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
John Herons' answers are pretty feeble. Ross is right in what he has said.
Apart from the Labour group of DDC marching around in support of Open Borders. Have they thought what it exactly means.
It means millions of people can live here.It will like a group of squatters taking over your home.Impossible to evict .
Another own goal by the girls and boys of Dover Labour will be the fact, that if the borders are open, you don't need border staff or possibly custom staff..I would have thought the possible closure of the Removal centre would give a clue to this.
There will be some interesting conversations on the doorsteps of border staff by Labour canvassers.... Vote for me.My policy is for Open Borders and because there is no need for you to look at passports. My policy will make you redundant.
Economic madness for Dover and the rest of the district.
Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,937
Open borders?
Heads will roll and:-
Do nothing and nothing happens.
Guest 1590- Registered: 22 Oct 2015
- Posts: 86
Ah Peter,still holding on to an argument that is non-existent and also still no mention of the total misrepresentation of what I said (still available on my Twitter feed ) in your opening post.That is a shame, I had you figured as a fine and up standing chap.:thumb sup
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
John I am not questioning what you said..The fact is,you and others of Dover and Deal Labour party were on a march through Dover last Saturday..The march was in support of Open Dover,Open Europe,Open Borders and Refugees Welcome here..Pictures were in the Local websites/ Newspapers of you and others....It is not illegal for someone to demostraite peacefully.If you read my first post on this,I said you seemed cheerful unlike the rightwing marches who seem to be drunken yobs..You admit you were on the march last Saturday.There are pictures of you..There is no argument on my part what you do on Saturdays..The title of this thread,,Has the Dover and Deal Labour party change its policy on Immgration
I have no problem if Dover Labour have changed a policy,I have no problem if you and others feel strongly about an issue..You and the others are adults with concerns on the delicate problem of migrants and you wish to show your concern..At the moment this country is a democracy with free speech and you used your right to free speech last Saturday.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I have to say I am with rippers on this one, John is just playing word games and avoiding giving straight answers. Our Sue has taken flak on here and social media elsewhere but has always been unfailingly clear on what she thinks.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
For what it's worth, here is my take on the subject.
1. Accepting genuine refugees does not mean open borders. Open borders is a concept and catchphrase invented by those with a closed mind who want to pull up the drawbridge. Rigorous checks need to be made and all those with no valid asylum claim must be repatriated without delay. If they want to appeal they can do it from back home.
2. If we accept and assimilate permanently into our society all those who have fled their native lands (for whatever reason) we risk not only disruption to our own social fabric but damage the ability of those countries whence they came ever to get back on their feet.
3. Our overseas aid budget should be spent training and mentoring displaced people so that when the time comes they have the necessary skills to return home and re-establish viable nation states. During both world wars we played host to governments in exile which eventually returned to take over power after defeat of the Nazis. I don't see why we can't apply the same principles now. That would be a better use for our aid money than some of the half-assed projects which it has funded.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
4. Perhaps if people feel so strongly they should be able to sponsor a refugee, putting up a bond refundable twice over when the refugee returns home. If he settles permanently, the bond to be forfeit.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Furthermore I don't see anything in John's responses which demonstrate anything other than a principled concern for genuine refugees. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Peter, I understand Johns' concerns..Our country has international obligations to help refugees fleeing war zones,people at risk of torture etc, this I agree. On one of Johns' first posts,he said the reason he went on the march is to demonstrate his right to march in his home town...Again a valid reason. When I pointed out that the march was introduced in the local media as Open Dover,Open Europe,Open Borders and Refugees welcome here. by the march organizers Incidentally the Open Borders organization have occupied the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras causing delays today .....John when asked by Howard whether he agreed about Open Borders,on this John was not clear..Have you seen the Dover Express this week? Sue mentioned in her post, she had read it. It is worth looking at it...One of the banners near where John and others were marching said,Borders Kill and the main chant of the marchers was, Tories Out, Migrants In
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
I feel it may be worth mentioning some events that took place on 23rd September and 30th September.
I must declare 2 interests,some of you know,I am a member of UKIP but not a branch official.
I am also a member of the Campaign for the Protection of Rural England..CPRE...I am on the Dover committee of CPRE.
I and others on the committee check the agendas of forthcoming council meetings to check for planning applications especially for large developments..On the agenda of Deal Town Council for the date of 23rd September,I noticed a motion put forward by Cllr Ben Bano requesting DTC to ask Dover District Council to resettle Syrian Refugees in the district,,
I am aware that Ben Bano is a Director of Seeking Sanctuary,a asylum seekers charity based at Calais,mainly in a place called the jungle..Seeking Sanctuary has a website and Ben is featured on it..Its worth a look,Ben is asking for donations of jeans and trainers also other donations.I do not object to the good work of this charity,I wouldn't like to live in a tent in a muddy field.
I felt it was a conflict of interest by Ben because it wasn't mention in the motion.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I disagree with Peter's summing up in post 36, open borders is about letting anyone in whether or not they are refugees.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
I contacted the Chairman of Deal Town Council and asked if there was declaration of interest relating to the motion.He said there wasn't. I told the Chairman I would raise it during Public questions on the 23rd September.
On the 23rd September,the council meeting was held unfortunately Ben Bano phoned in Sick unable to attend..It was decided that Bens' motion would go ahead with the Seconder of motion KCC Cllr Mike Eddy and DDC Labour group leader also Deal town councillor would forward the motion and speak in favour of it...I stood up and said because it was unfair to raise my question while Ben Bano wasn't there..I would cancel my question...Incidentally Cllr Bano is Labour Group Leader on Deal Town Council
The vote was taken on the motion,the Labour group on Deal Town Council voted for it..The Tories voted against..The motion was defeated..
Do nothing and nothing happens.