Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
Reg this has nothing to do with the politics of those on the committee, but has everything to do with the fact that that a serving member of the RAF who died during the 2nd world war is deemed to not qualify for a place on his hometowns war memorial.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
I think I shall join the ladies on this one, I think the only answers (excuses) your going to get on here are from some ones mouth piece.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 652- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 595
Why do you not wait and see what alternative is disscussed between the DTC and the war Memorial Project, I'm sure a solution will be reached.
I would love to see my young mates name on the Memorial, although I have a picture of her beside my bed, she is never far from my mind, even after all this time.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Guys we need to relax a wee bit on this one...
It is understandable that people are passionate and of course we dont want anyone to be upset. Nice post from Sheila there who of course is a town councillor but probably not involved in the current process... if I can put it that way.
I havent had any statement through from Gordon, but it would probably be unlikely, as I suspect the statement would have to come from the Town Council itself. What I will do is drop the Town Clerk a line to see if there is anything further coming by way of clarification. It may take a little time as the committee would probably have to meet before another statement is issued..if indeed they issue one at all.
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
If I may come in on a more personal note this time; Sheila, I think of your little friend often. I remember too the first time I saw her picture; just heartbreaking. We have visited her grave several times, indeed as we visit as many other graves of our lost ones as possible. Those we cannot visit, kind people across the world do so on our behalf. Each person who was lost was unique and precious, and even though it is nearly a century on now for some of them, that loss reverberates to this day with the families and friends who were bereaved.
The names submitted have been requested in the three years since the last dedication was made in 2009. The very first came the day after that dedication was reported in the local papers. That first request was the dying request of someone who had mourned the loss throughout her life; she said, "This is the last thing I can do for my darling dad."
When the decision of the Committee was made public, which was nearly a month after it was made, I wrote to all the families and friends, by email for speed, by letter where I couldn't contact by email, to inform them. We have had many emails, phone calls, and letters in response. Everyone knew that the final decision was up to the Town Council, in whose care the Memorial is placed, but it takes little imagining to appreciate that responses have generally been very emotional.
Some have expressed a weary view, along the lines of "this is the kind of thing we'd expect from the Council". At the same time, they and others vary from white-hot anger through deep dismay that seemingly the Council just don't understand what service for one's country means to the occasion when someone was unable to speak at all through sobbing. I feel that it has been underestimated exactly how significant it is for the families and friends to have a Dovorian loved one commemorated on the Town Memorial, the focus point of Remembrance in November, with the name displayed in the centre of our community, for all to see every day. The communications have not come just from the families and friends, but from others too; this has hit our community, and not just here but overseas, because some members of several of the families now live elsewhere.
Paul, I wrote to Allison, our Town Clerk, on 29th April, to request information regarding the discussion that occurred at that meeting, which the minutes give as "full and frank", the names of the people who were present at the meeting, and a copy of the report that she put before the committee. I have been given information unofficially, but to date haven't received an official response to my letter.
Speaking for the Committee, if I may for a moment, I currently believe that the general goodwill and intention to "do the right thing" was there. The problem lies, I think, in the decision to decline the names, rather than referring any queries before making any decision. Nevertheless, this decision does not mean dialogue is closed - far from it. The minutes request a further meeting, and I am quite sure that all members of the Committee, indeed, all Councillors, will wish to resolve this, and that it will be resolved. I am equally absolutely certain that, no matter how it may currently appear, absolutely no offence was ever intended to anyone, not to townsfolk, not to serving and ex-serving people, and certainly never to the memory of our Fallen and to the families and the friends who mourn them to this day.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Thank you for clarifying the situation. It seems as if the council spokesman was just unwise with his words, I also hope the Town Council have an about turn and all appropriate names are commemorated as soon as possible.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
maggie,once again thakyou for your post keeping us updated,with that said i would like see this resloved as soon as possable.
R.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Thank you Maggie.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
And thank you Maggie fo putting it across so eloquently, much appreciated I'm sure by all
Here's hoping for a justified result.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I had hoped that by putting the views of gordon after some realy bad p;osts(114) which had no relevance to the original thread, then it could have moved on.
I'm thankful also that maggie has made the projects views clear and that of the town council and the wish to work together.
which is exactly what i put in a very early post on gordon's view.
Shiela as a town cllr also adds her point of view of lets get around the table and talk, another of gordon's views.
just on my own personal view, and not to muddy the waters to much, there is always a line in the sand that you have to draw, and although i have no idea of the cost of each name that does get included, if you leave the criteria to just anyone just alive at war time and killed waklking along the road, then maybe there would be a big cost incurred.
so maybe first those killed in action should be top priority, then look at what others could be included.
the town council budget isnt big, and should be a consideration
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
I wonder if it is time to draw that line in the sand.........................
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
you said you had bern
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Here we go again.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kieth,untill the truth comes out,and the two partys meet and disscus the problem,then kill the the rumors by doing a joint press release then this thing can be put to bed.
Keith - I was commenting on your post, not the topic. But hey ho.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
As I was yours BERN.
Anyway, brian You are correct until the two bodies meet this thread will go on attacking the wrong person(whom i understand wasnt even present when the decision was made)
I also agree that the 2 bodies have agreed to meet and set up a criteria, thought at the time of replying i was being helpful didnt expect what followed never mind though all part of the forum i suppose.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
Just to update on this thread: I had over the weekend a long conversation with Cllr Cowan. The conversation was most positive.
A meeting is being arranged, via the Town Clerk, so the DWMP and Councillors can work together and move forward on this. The bottom line, as always, is that we will never and must never forget our Fallen, their families, and the dreadful sacrifices and losses they suffered - and which are still being suffered to this day.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Maggie
Hope you have a productive meeting with the Town Council.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
thank you for the update maggie.
R
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
I serve on this committee and the article in the newspapers were absolute tosh,and the letters in the newspapers have followed suit,that is not what happened.
We are concerned at the shortage of space on the war memorial,but some of those people on the list had a very tenuious link to Dover and some died years after the war.For instance and I wont use a real event but some one that did serve in the army was electrocuted at work 5 years later,should that person be on the War Memorial, another example someone who parents lived in Dover during the war for 3 months should they be on the memorial?
The Town Council has asked to meet Maggie and co to try and sort out those who perhaps if I put it like this had a reasonably connection with Dover and died in action,otherwise it may have meant in the extreme that almost anyone who passed through Dover or had a relation here may have been put on the memorial,that is an over statement but perhaps clearer.We didnt discuss the cost but did discuss the availability and at last nigts meeting we even spoke about adding a recent conflict memorial because the one there only remembers first and second world war Dover people.
We also talked about widening the path of the memorial at a big cost to allow wheelchairs and disabled people better access.
The reason I have not taken part in this discussion is because of computer problems and for those who think I have no forces experience you are correct but my Grandad was in the 8th Army in North Africa and Italy and my Dad fought in the Korean War.But if anyone wants to ask me anything feel free and if I can answer your queries on this I will.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!