Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Theresa May has said the responsible shall be punished, and this seems to indicate criminal charges.
She stated that no-one will ever know how many terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants got into Britain in that time of lapsed security.
D. Cameron says he knew nothing about it.
This means only one thing, that the heads of UKBA - those responsible - can expect criminal charges.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not necessarily alex, could be that the political masters have closed ranks and hung the ukba out to dry.
nothing new in politics.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
That might be what you prefer to think Howard. The balance of evidence is in the other direction though - the basic instincts of a Tory means they would not go along with what happened and Theresa May is no bleeding heart liberal and would not be inclined towards agreeing what happened. Damian Green might be more likely as he is on the left/liberal wing (relatively speaking) of the Party but I suspect that the idea would be against his basic instincts too. In the unlikely case of the latter he will be out of government and I would not be surprised if his local Party revolted against him as well.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
nothing to do with political ideology barry, much more to do with getting an easier life.
if the checks had not been stopped there would have been serious delays during the summer, questions would have been asked about staffing levels.
we all know what the blues have done to staffing levels.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - I really do not believe that the 'easier life' for officials would influence Theresa May but it may do so with those very senior officials. I have met her several times and she is a lady who has some very strong personal views and motivations who will not put her principals to one side on something as fundamental and important to Conservatives as this.
It seems quite clear that the senior officials simply went well beyond any brief that she authorised and she was furious that they did so.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
what i do not understand is why the top man took this decision knowing he would be found out.
even if it did not come out from one of the thousands of staff in the general course of things then a disgruntled employee would have got onto the press.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - come on if people though rationally about being found out life would be a lot simpler.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
im afraid im with those that say minister involvemnt had to be in place, and probably heads will roll but probably the wrong ones.
looks like the tories have again been found wanting
talking tough on immigration, yet in reality no substance
rogers right on this one, this realy does smell of something very fishy.
once again barryw's dave has been left wanting.
can he realy last much longer
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 708- Registered: 22 Dec 2010
- Posts: 102
It may have already been said in this topic. I think that is was wrong for that member of Parliament to say, relax our immigration laws, when are troop's are working in Afghanistan & Libya. Does it make you wonder if the Coalition are on our side.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You are getting to be a bit monotonous Keith.
One explaination may have been that due to cut backs there where not enough staff avaliable to ensure that people could be processed in a timely manner , A "safe" decision was taken to to check all EU citizens and this "safe" decision was rolled out to encorporate other non EU travellers . Depending on which side of the debate a person stands both the following statements may be seen as true
, I did not authorize this ( rolling it out to cover non EU travellers ) and It was authorized by Ministers ( Which the initial pilot was ) .
Neither statement quite representing the real circumstances of events
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
and your not baz???
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the top cove has now resigned and is in a state of high dudgeon, he clearly means business and to use the phrase that i posted earlier on this thread feels he has been hung out to dry.
I think is evidence to the select commitee will be very intresting , to say the least
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Surely now Theresa May has no credibility and in the name of decency she should resign immediately. Brodie Clark has been hung out to dry by her.
Audere est facere.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Newsnight.
We can only hope three experienced,highly capable Border Agency Officers are not `Scapegoats` to protect one or two Ministers jobs.
Hope unfortuneatly very seldom produces the justified end required.
Next Tuesday`s Select Committee however may provide enough evidence to help hope on this occasion.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
It seems very clear that the UKBA were at fault, they had orders, they disobeyed them, and informed no-one, not even showing a minimum sense of doubt in what they were doing.
It seems that the 5,000 job cuts don't even come into effect this year either, so they can't really play that card as an excuse.
If the UKBA chiefs and their unions try to bring down the Government on this one, then I must say that I support Theresa May here.
There is no excuse for what the Border Agency chiefs did.
I may have mis heard , as its very early but the BBC news has just had an articleon where the ex head of the UKBA said the policy has been in place since 2008/9 which owuld mean it was in place during the last Labour administration
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Sarah.
That'd blow a hole wide open in Labour's immigration practice's.
No wonder we have so much trouble - have to wait and see if that's true; somethjing to chew on though
Roger
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I am a Conservative and a Conservative Councillor, but with me it is not a case of "my party right or wrong", if I believe something is wrong, I'll say so.
I've just read this on-line:
Mr Clark was suspended from his £135,000-a-year job last week. He faced disciplinary action and Mrs May has suggested he could be charged with criminal offences. Last night, as he resigned, he accused her of making his position "untenable" by her claims about his actions.
"Those statements are wrong and were made without the benefit of hearing my response to formal allegations," he said.
"With the Home Secretary announcing and repeating her view that I am at fault, I cannot see how any process conducted by the Home Office or under its auspices, can be fair and balanced."
In a statement, Mr Clark insisted that he had full authority for all the actions he had taken.
"The Home Secretary suggests that I added additional measures, improperly, to the trial of our risk-based controls. I did not. Those measures have been in place since 2008-09," he said.
"The Home Secretary also implies that I relaxed the controls in favour of queue management. I did not. Despite pressure to reduce queues, including from ministers, I can never be accused of compromising security for convenience."
This summer regularly saw queues of three hours and more at Heathrow, during which time "I never once contemplated cutting our essential controls to ease the flow," Mr Clark said.
He was summoned yesterday to give evidence to a parliamentary inquiry into the immigration row, giving him a public platform to challenge Mrs May's version of events.
He promised to co-operate "fully" with the home affairs committee".
There is talk of a pilot scheme relaxing entry from EU Nationals (I don't believe there should have been any relaxing, as there are thousands and thousands of criminals in and around Europe perfectly capable of falsifying and creating counterfeit passports).
There is now talk of a scheme being in place since 2008/9 (which Sarah spoke of above in post number 58), which would have meant that Labour were letting in unknown thousands and thousands of people, some of whom could quite easily have been terrorists.
There hasn't been an admittance from Labour yet that they were indeed operating such a scheme.
If all of this is just to cut the lengthening queues, because of cutting costs, then it is an absolute disgrace whoever is/was responsible - employ more staff; keep Britain safe.
Doesn't the Government - any Government, have a duty of care to its citizens ?
Roger