15 January 2010
11:5337662Sue
You keep repeating why it took so long to organise a public meeting. It is fairly obvious but local government has procedures and these must be observed. Indeed the meeting is organised so that the maximum time is given for the public to be informed and for us to gather the information from District so that an informed meeting can take place not shoot from the hip or rush into a wrong decision. We are daily in contact so communication is happening.
The meeting couldnt have worked in December and early January and is timed 8 days before the next Council meeting so we have time to write reports and gather more information from the meeting. It isnt just a showcase we really want to hear from the people so no decisions have been made.
You seem to think this is a simple matter but it isnt and demands proper thought.
The Mayor and I have made statements that you should read carefully before suggesting that we are at fault here. There has never been a rejection of the devolution of services by DTC and we are working very hard to accept that inevitability. This isnt about Toilets alone its also about Tourism etc and all have to be balanced. There are very large sums of money involved.
I further support Pats comments on the Dover Society who are well respected and have input to DTC on many levels and that is welcome.
And yes our web site is up to date these days and we publish audited accounts and attendance -
d
15 January 2010
15:1037675I am painfully aware of the channels and protocols of local authorities and government. One tiny suggestion is that itis time to examine those channels and protocols and make things simpler and more straighforward. There is witghout doubt a high degree of complexity involved, but over time the processes for managing those complexities have become themselves too complex, with layer upon layer of process overlapping to the point of idiocy. There has to be a better, simpler, clearer way of managing complexities. Complexity itself demands simplicity of management!!!!!!!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
15 January 2010
15:3837677Forgive me if I missed someone else making this point but council budgets are worked out from May to April and therefore DDC should have budgeted for the toilets until April so why close them in January? The obvious answer would be that there were errors in the budgeting (or that DDC just wanted to play a political game with the closures) and that someone got the figures wrong.
As has been made clear the Town Council has not made a decision yet and will only do so after truly public consultation, it is a pity that the closures were not handled in the same way.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
15 January 2010
15:4337678Bern could not have put better myself .There is nothing too complicated here that would not have had those toilets reopened .The DTC as is their right have deemed to call a public meeting .Seven working day has to be given and a notice displayed .
I know for a fact that DDC gave the costings of the cleaning of the toilets to DTC back in November.I have been in politics longer than most .Jim Hood probably beats me by a few years and Paul Watkins by one .
I always make sure of my facts especially on an open forum which can be ready by many which includes the press .
This is turning into a blame culture .Tourism yes talks have been going on for some while as indeed the Play areas an issuie which never got resolved
What I cant seem to get over to some forum posters is the fact the other Town Councils plus parishes are paying for their own facilities .Its a complete red herring to state people outside of Dover use the toilets .Are we going to have people in St Margatets and Sandwich putting up the barriers ".You cant come in because you dont pay for out facilities ."
I was trained to be an Instructor back in the sixties .We had several lessons on how to deal with red herrings we as time goes on know all about these .
There is one person who doesnt post on here who is stirring it .
I know who you are so come out and of the wood work
Forget Politically aspirations and get the toilets opened .
15 January 2010
17:0037693"What I cant seem to get over to some forum posters is the fact the other Town Councils plus parishes are paying for their own facilities"
I don't think anybody is disputing that Sue, and our Town Council are not saying they won't either. Why could the DDC not wait until the Town Council had confirmed there position?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
15 January 2010
17:1137696What a neat MODERN looking replacement for the old brick toilet.
Portobello Road. How much?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
15 January 2010
17:1337698Dear God No!!!!!!!! They have similar monstrosities in Wexford and I cannot use them!! I fear either the door flying open to reveal....well, what it would reveal - or opening the door to find myself suddenly elsewhere. Don't ask....!!!!!!
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
15 January 2010
17:1537702It cost us a£1 each when we has up there the last time
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
15 January 2010
19:4337751I, for one, fully understand that one or other of our local councils need to fund the toilets in town and I am happy as a town resident to pay for these facilities via my council tax bill, irrespective of which of the two councils levies those costs. I also fully understand that District councils have been capped and cannot increase council tax; I also fully understand that non capped revenues are significantly down (car park fees, planning fees etc.) for very obvious reasons. What I do not understand is, given the fiscal year runs from April to March and the toilets will have been budgeted for for that period, why the toilets were closed earlier than the end of March. This smacks of petty minded political brinksmanship and nothing else.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 January 2010
20:2137765SUE
Unfortunatly you cant hide just because your fellow tory closed the toilets, you have done well in an attempt to drag our nigel out into the debate.
Not only was the timing wrong for the closures with talks ongoing with the town council, but also the lack of consultation.
On the question of the public meeting Sue i think David has answered that well, and hopefully at the meeting on the 2oth we might hAVE an update on the town councils position.
THERES ONE PERSON MISSING FROM THIS DEBATE
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
15 January 2010
20:2237766After a serious of meetings today somethings have become clearer,the meeting at the Town Council is to listen to people's views on whether they or rather us pay for the public toilets,the meeting at DDC is to find out who gave the instruction to close the toilets,why close the ones by the Town Council offices and for what reason that this was shut rather than the ones by Somerfield.
If we can work out who gave the instructions why no Council,Cabinet or any other meeting discussed it and why there will be no paper trail,then find out if it is true that the Council has just signed a 5 year contract with Connaught who open and clean the toilets and what it will cost the Council as no doubt there are penalty clauses,we could be paying for the cleaning of the toilets even when they are close.Why is it as Chris points out that Council budgets run from April to April so why shut the toilets in January,who they consulted and when.Also wether it is true that some of the sanitaryware has been removed from any of the toilets so making it more expensive to reopen them,please be assured these questions will be asked at the Scrutiny meeting on the 20th.
Along side that why DDC want to shift the blame on DTC as I said before they have run the toilets since 1974 and DTC only mandatory things they have to do is run allotments,and having bumped into Rhys if he has received any of the paper work that the Dover Express was asked for and were told it was unlikely to be forthcoming!The Dover Express seems content to blame DTC,but they are not thier toilets and talks are underway to discuss if how and when they run them,of course if they do not take them over they will get the blame which is unfair,the mis management of the toilets is down to one Council.DDC or the officers or the Councillors.No one else!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 January 2010
20:2737769I do feel the Town council has acted responsibly on this issue
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 January 2010
20:3037770lost me a bit john, who was asking rhys for paperworks from the dover express?
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
15 January 2010
20:3937774Sorry Howard Rhysfrom the Dover Express has asked the District Council for the paper work,they won't find any not unless they are doing it now.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
15 January 2010
20:5137777Bloody Hell!! For a simple person like me the matter becomes very simple: a port town like Dover needs good toilets!!! Notwithstanding the complexities of local authorities, who do like to make things cloudy and opaque for whatever reason - it is clear that to encourage visitors the loos have to be decent. Make it happen people!!!!!! That's what you are paid for!!!
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
15 January 2010
21:2737791Just been reading the new White Cliffs Country visitors guide,it is actually quite a good publication until you get to page 64 where it shows the toilets that are closed on the seafront,the ones that are open on the seafront aren't shown nor are Buckland Bridge but it does show opposite Somerfields as being there but it also shows the ones at Maison Dieu as public toilets,by the way Deal Town Council have not yet decided to take on thier toilets and it is not looking good,so why weren't they closed?
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
15 January 2010
21:2937792I agree with Bern, decent loos needed we need at least four of the Portabello models #306 (very clean and blends in with the environment)
and maybe a pissoir in St James's as no planning permission required as there was one there beforehand
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
15 January 2010
21:3337794Not sure what Bern`s going to make of your posting Barry W-S. ref (#307). Well, I thought it was a good idea at the time.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
15 January 2010
21:4137796Oops! I was going by Bern's #315 statement, maybe the Wexford model has an attachment that doesent see the light of day
(sorry couldn't resist that one)
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
15 January 2010
21:4137797There is a third option,in Perth they have Public Available Toilets,where shops,cafes and Restaurants are paid £2000 a year to allow members of the public to come off the street to use thier toilets,I was talking to someone today who runs a cafe and he was all for it.Signs are put out side the shop,or cafe Public Available Toilet,and inside.
My friend was a bit concerned to go into a clothes shop to use the loo,but no one questioned him and of course if a small shop or cafe who have to provide facilities can get £2000 to let thier toilets out some in these financial strapped times would probably take them on.I am not saying I agree with it,but it may give an extra option.By the way this is not my idea or even Perth's it ia a Goverment idea to make more public toilets available.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!