Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
31 August 2010
13:4568117Barry, you mention understanding and not inderstanding this that and the other.
I have just understood that on the Daily Mail front page that pensions in Britain are taking a nose-dive! the less one hears of these share proposals, the better.
Making Dover Port into a share-holding company is a lazy idea, that can only leave an avenue open for speculation, and some share of the cake by a few, and dreadfully leave out the masses of Dovorians from any benefit in Port revenues.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
31 August 2010
13:5468121Alexander - a silly season story in the Mail. Nothing new there. What it refers to are annuity rates, something based on long-term government bond rates, reflecting interest rates. Lower inflation/interest rates since the early 80's have indeed led to a steady drop in annuity rates so every £1,000 of pension buys a lower income. The low interest rates at the moment do mean lower annuity rates but with an added risk of default to be factored in.
What is really foolish are people (65% of people) accepting the annuity rates offered by their pension companies instead of exercising their open market option. By going to the open market you might get as much as 30% or even more income in retirement.
What that has to do with Charlie's proposals I really do not know. Perhaps you should familiarise yourself better with what Charlie is saying along with the differing types of bond and the difference between equities (shares) and bonds.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
31 August 2010
16:0368138Barry, to the best of my knowledge, exactly you on the front page have just written about a share-company for Dover Port, advising that if it comes into being, people should buy shares. This confirms what I wrote above, that the majority of Dovorians would miss out,not having money to buy shares, and only people with money could afford them, and so by would also cash in the revenues, as well as having the option to sell the shares later at a higher value.
Absolutely NOTHING to do with Democracy, or anything that concerns revenues for the benefit of Dover's Comunity, exactly as I stated! Your front page extract just up confirms this!
The rich get richer, the others don't count!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
31 August 2010
16:1768139to be honest charlie may have the right idea but i cant see it being forthcoming to fruition,on the other side i can see the port of callias or dubai ports putting a bid in.with the money them two have they could pull it off,with t2 in full operation within 2 years of them taking over.
31 August 2010
17:3768147I heard on the grapvine that a joint Polish/Ukranian bid was about to become public knowledge. Seems they have a readymade workforce to bring as well.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 August 2010
17:4268149brian makes a valid point here, i suspect that the port of calais and dubai ports will be watching events closely, both well qualified to know the true value of the port and the potential for it to be a nice little earner for either.
both would know what they are letting themselves in for.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
31 August 2010
17:5368154Alexander #103
I am a regulated investment adviser and it is a serious legal matter for you to suggest that I advised the purchase by anyone of shares without the proper regulatory procedures. I did not. Once again you deliberately misinterpret what is said to construct your argument. I insist that you withdraw your statement immediately.
You clearly do not understand what I said or the arguments involved and should not make such a complete fool of yourself.
Charlie's plan is to offer £10 Dovorian bonds, easily affordable by almost anyone who wants to purchase one. This is nothing to do with the rich getting richer at all and anyone who buys into such a trust structure would get a voice in that.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
31 August 2010
18:3968158BAZ;
In reality, someone who say buys 100 shares will get more of a voice and like other ventures be able to outvote someone who has just one share.
Its democracy, be honest barryw I don't disagree with any new set up, but lets real on how it will REALY operate
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
31 August 2010
18:4568160Nothing wrong with that Keith and its quite right too. 'Shares' is, incidentally the wrong term to use and has a different connotation.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
31 August 2010
18:4868162BAZ
NO matter how you dress it up, the everyday person is not going to get a REAL say, those with dosh, will outnumber the poor everyday person.
Outnumberd and outvoted
and probably not listerned to if other ventures are anything to go by
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
31 August 2010
19:0568166Pension schemes will be keen long term investors I should think.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
31 August 2010
19:3368171Keith you would still be outvoted and outnumbered if you were one of 300,000 people who purchased a bond at £10 to raise £3,000,000 - nothing to do with wealth at all. The point is that people do get a chance to own a slice in a way that is affordable to everyone should they wish to participate. To be able to invest £10 or £100,000, thats your choice and if it means that the Port is locally owned by people in the Dover area then that is great.
Jan - you are correct in that though in what shape or form that would take leaving locals as major bond holders would be part of the detail.
What would be great would be for enough finance to be raised locally without institutions having to become bondholders at all, with any balance of the funding coming as commercial lending. Bond holders could be individual local people, Port users/employees, port companies and maybe local authorities as well.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
31 August 2010
20:1668176I also believe that all local and small investors would form a consortium that would have quite a voice in the end.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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31 August 2010
20:1668177All this no voice is just tosh. My mother-in-law, a very down to earth socialist Geordie by the way, put some of her savings into BT shares when thy privatised. Not for her the waek, lily-livered (puts on whiney kids voice), "I've got no say" approach. No siree. She'd put very hard earned money into her few BT shares and she was determined to speak her mind at the AGM's to ensure they were looking after her money properly.
So, my advice to all Dovorians if offered the chance to buy £10 bond(s), do all you can to get at least one if you can and attend AGM's when/if you can. As the saying goes, 'put up, or shut up'.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 August 2010
20:4968185quite right sid i have been emptying my jar of half crowns and find that it totals up to a tenner, if that does not put bobby g in his place nothing will.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
31 August 2010
21:0568194Barry, I did not mention anything about 'without the proper regulatory procedures'.
Here is a copy of a part of your text addessed to me on the front page:
''Now if Charlie's plan goes ahead then we really would get local ownership of the Port and those of us that buy 'Dover Bonds' will have a say in what happens to it.''
I commented on this line, and needn't withdraw any statement I made concerning it.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
31 August 2010
21:1268197You said. those of us... and I said that many ofus have not the money to buy bonds. You were evidently referring to people with money, and not to people without money to invest, as those who would have a share in any bonds.
Barry, if you try silencing me on the Dover Port sale by inventing phrases I have not written, it won't get you any further! If you do, then you chose the wrong person to pick on! My phrases today concerning the port sale in its various proposals are not slander or otherwise illegal, and have been expressed in much more diredct and severe terms on local papers since early this year by various people! But if you want to pick a quarrel, it will no doubt end up in the local papers, 'cause I will not be bullied by Barry's private laws and will make use of existing State laws to ward off any attempt ypu may make in that direction!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 August 2010
21:2368199just a trifle over dramatic alexander, blue barry is not trying to silence you, just holding a different view to yours.
maybe both of you could use more moderate terms.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
31 August 2010
21:3168203HOWARD
Baz does tend to over play things and only accept his own point of view.
Sad realy, doesn't do much when he as good as says only he knows.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
31 August 2010
21:4768205This is the sort of stuff our Barry earns his living at so we would all do well to heed his advice. Put bluntly, if I were investing £10 would I listen to Alexander or Barry on how best to place it? No brainer, Barry every time.
Only an idiot would think that every person in Dover would be able to buy bonds, and of course, those with money to invest will be able to buy more. That's how it works, but it works for the small and large investor alike if the small investors get off their arses and make their voice heard.
I know of one occasion where the small investors ganged up on the Board of Directors of a major UK company and forced the Directors to take a different routye tot hat they were trying to impose. The small person does have a voice, it just takes a bit more effort to be heard.
