Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
untill 1 sinks,
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
Even then !
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 3925- Registered: 28 Nov 2020
- Posts: 541
Although I still think that P&O would prefer to get shot of the whole ferries side of things, I disagree that it is a PR disaster for them.
If they don't end up getting all ships back into service and eventually pull the plug, they won't care and just walk away. They've treated their old staff appallingly and don't seem to mind that they've done that, so why would they care about PR?
If the ships do all get back into service, the PR side is not going to worry them at all. They won't care about tourist traffic, freight is what they will be after, knowing that they've got the country held to ransom, PR won't matter. Business is business and freight customers will use a service that allows them to deliver to the UK /Europe simple. If P&O have the space, freight businesses will use them.
We can all boycott P&O as tourists, but it will make no difference to them, the "on-board" spend that they had before never made that much, unless you were an avid fan of giant Toblerone! Not having 300 hundred cars onboard simply means that they can fit the more profitable freight onboard.
Don't forget that it's the amount of people on-board that limits them. I don't know exactly the safety numbers but say it's 2000 max and 300 cars with four people in each, plus 15 coaches of 50 people, my maths only leaves 50 spaces left, so could be as low as 25 HGV if each has a co-driver and having worked alongside this business previously, freight makes the money, tourist doesn't.
So I don't think they are worried about PR.
victor matcham, Reginald Barrington, Matey and
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victor matcham- Registered: 5 Oct 2021
- Posts: 1,075
I Agree with the above post a boycott of using them would never work it is only the local folk that would try and do it, but outside Kent not many would care anyway as long as there is a ship to take them over that is all they would care about.
As for myself I do not think my wife and myself will ever have the need to get on one,but if we did we would try to avoid getting on a PO ship because what they done and the way they done it was very wrong.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
Thankfully the last poster as usual is incorrect
It isn't just Dover locals
It's people across all the ports for a start, also people in general .
.if people are still happy to travel with an inexperienced crew and crew paid the maximum of £4 an hour then more fool them .
It's a PR disaster one that they will find hard to get over .
But it won't be forgotten
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
On this one Vic is wrong as it's not people outside Kent it's people outside Dover area that really don't care, P & O will be running at the capacity they were before.
What they pay is irrelevant to the public (most of the stuff we buy from China is made for far less than a couple of quid an hour) and we buy lots of it!
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Arte et Marte
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Reginald Barrington wrote:On this one Vic is wrong as it's not people outside Kent it's people outside Dover area that really don't care, P & O will be running at the capacity they were before.
What they pay is irrelevant to the public (most of the stuff we buy from China is made for far less than a couple of quid an hour) and we buy lots of it!
You don't put your life in someone's hands when you buy a plastic soap dish from China.
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Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
What's salary to do with safety?
Safety has been cleared by one of the strictest organisations outside of air travel.
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Arte et Marte
Matey
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 11 Oct 2021
- Posts: 178
Most of the freight hauliers have accounts with all the ferry operators so they don’t have all their eggs in one basket (in case of strikes etc.) So they will exploit P&O all the time they are selling space so cheaply. I agree with Reg, they will be at capacity for a while and then when their rates start to increase it might reduce quite a bit. I’m still of the view that they won’t continue in the longer term though.
Life without a dog is like a salad without lettuce.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Reginald Barrington wrote:What's salary to do with safety?
Safety has been cleared by one of the strictest organisations outside of air travel.
What has Chinese manufacturing got to do with the crewing of P&O ships out of Dover?
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
I suspect that Mr Barrington was proffering it as an example of the 'what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over' approach to purchasing.
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Button wrote:I suspect that Mr Barrington was proffering it as an example of the 'what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over' approach to purchasing.
Indeed. But Mr Barrington didn't take the 23.59 ferry from Dover to Calais on March 6th 1987 and drive to Zeebrugge as I did with various other Townsend Thoresen 'management' and staff. I did. It wasn't enjoyable. Mr Barrington's heart might grieve a little more if he understood things a little better.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
ray hutstone wrote:What has Chinese manufacturing got to do with the crewing of P&O ships out of Dover?
Absolutely no idea, that'll be your imaginary conversations again.
It has everything to do however with "if people are still happy to travel with a crew paid the maximum of £4 an hour then more fool them ."
Also everything to do with; People generally are not interested in how much the people who make or provide the goods and services they use are paid.
Arte et Marte
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
ray hutstone wrote:Indeed. But Mr Barrington didn't take the 23.59 ferry from Dover to Calais on March 6th 1987 and drive to Zeebrugge as I did with various other Townsend Thoresen 'management' and staff. I did. It wasn't enjoyable. Mr Barrington's heart might grieve a little more if he understood things a little better.
Oh poor you.
I was at home grieving the loss of an uncle and 2 close friends, sorry if their deaths caused you a little less than enjoyable day in Zeebrugge.
I understand well enough, while the management were virtue signalling and wringing there hands, we were arranging repatriation of bodies and funerals.
Remember it was the management that caused those deaths not the crew!
Arte et Marte
alexiatrade- Registered: 10 Oct 2018
- Posts: 89
Remember it was the management that caused those deaths not the crew!..#314
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So it was management that left the bow doors open?
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
No, but the officer who was supposed to ensure they were closed was on the bridge, so the ship could make faster turn around times at the bequest of management.
Arte et Marte
Guest 3925- Registered: 28 Nov 2020
- Posts: 541
Keith Sansum1 wrote:Thankfully the last poster as usual is incorrect
It isn't just Dover locals
It's people across all the ports for a start, also people in general .
.if people are still happy to travel with an inexperienced crew and crew paid the maximum of £4 an hour then more fool them .
It's a PR disaster one that they will find hard to get over .
But it won't be forgotten
The ships that are back to operation are running to capacity (although might only be freight at the moment in Dover) so it might be a PR disaster in your mind Keith, but the ships would be running empty if it was a PR disaster and people were boycotting it, but they are not as yet......
Unfortunately, freight companies and the travelling public are fickle and have short memories....
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Reginald Barrington wrote:Oh poor you.
I was at home grieving the loss of an uncle and 2 close friends, sorry if their deaths caused you a little less than enjoyable day in Zeebrugge.
I understand well enough, while the management were virtue signalling and wringing there hands, we were arranging repatriation of bodies and funerals.
Remember it was the management that caused those deaths not the crew!
You're right on one account only. It was partially a management problem as Justice Sheen pointed out when he referred to the 'disease of sloppiness' that infected the company. It wouldn't have mattered if Marc Stanley was pissed out of his head or not. If he had just hit his head on the top bunk, the end result would have been the same. Lewry and Sabel were equally complacent.
I was part of that management team, although with no responsibilty for he marine side of he business, and I utterly resent the odious implication of 'Oh poor you'. I spent three days telling people that their loved ones were dead and working non-stop to repatriate the remaining passengers.
I wasn't hand wringing. If you want to know the facts about the Zeebrugge disaster then come and see me sometime. Otherwise keep your ignorant and patronising comments to yourself.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
'Sloppiness and negligence at all levels of hierachy' was Sheens quote did you forget the 'negligence' part or choose to'?
odious implication? You brought it into the discussion and trust me I won't be taking lessons from the management of the time about the disaster.
Were you also part of the covering your arses that went on at the time of the enquiry?
Arte et Marte
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,878
This is getting out of hand and much to personal, so maybe time to stop with the retaliatory comments.
Everyone in this area must have suffered from the loss of family, close friends and those they slightly knew.
Alec Sheldon, Captain Haddock, Chris and
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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