howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
The longer it drags on the less likely the privatisation will go ahead in my opinion, if the will was there to do it I am sure it would have been done by now.
Audere est facere.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I disagree Martin. But then it depends on what definition of privatisation you apply. If you mean the DHB preferred option then you are right. If you also consider the Peoples Port as privatisation then I believe the delays are working in its favour simply because there are many hurdles, including European ones, to overcome to avoid a judicial review. The status-quo is not an option.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The peoples port(even they agree) is a form of privatisation, but back to the thread heading, whilst i have opposed the D.H.B. at this time, as that is the only option on the table at this time.
The Govt needs to move swiftly
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
As I understand it there is only the DHB option being considered, if that does not happen it remains a Trust Port?
Audere est facere.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
People's Port is on the table but the first step is for the DHB scheme to be refused.
I really do not think staying a Trust port is an option. Let us hope not anyway, the only way to ensure that the port is secure and for the town to benefit from it is the People's Port.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Of course the Status-quo, staying a trust port, is still an option.
I too prefer the PP's option over the DHB's but if both are rejected, we will be back to the status-quo, with nothing changed for Dover/Deal.
Had a campaign been run concurrently with the PP's plans, to change the Trust rules in favour of bettering our local communities, then I believe we would have covered all bases and been in a much better position..
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary - we both want what is best for Dover, that is clear. The problem is that the only way we can secure the Port in 'local; hands is through the People's Port. Remaining a Trust port does not rule out a privatisation scheme rearing its head in the future when the people/head of steam - behind the People's Port are not around to resurrect the scheme as an alternative.
Now I am personally pro-privatisation regardless but I want, most of all, Dover town to benefit as a priority and to me it is the People's Port that ticks all boxes that should satisfy those who oppose a private equity sale and those who prefer community ownership while maximising benefit to the town.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
I am not disagreeing with you about what we want, I am saying that there is a posibility that neither will be accepted and working on plans now to cover that option and preventing privatisation coming up again in the future, should be considered.
I know the reasons behind only Dover being part of PP but win or lose; Deal will suffer or benefit from any future decisions.
Or would Deal benefit?
If PP was successful, would any benefits only be for Dover and not for Deal?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
some interesting points and barryw's view that the private route is the wrong one and wouldnt get support is an interesting one
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
PP will only be officially on the table at some time after the DfT have rejected the DHB's transfer scheme under the Ports Act 1991. I think the officials at the DfT will be extremely careful to get it right, having made a pigs ear of the West Coast Main Line franchise. That may mean a longer delay in the decision but might make it more likely to go our way. One thing is for sure, it is going to be a long process.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Gary, Membership of DPPT is not restricted to Dover. Membership is open to everyone who lives, works or owns a business with registered offices in the geographical area described by the jurisdiction of Dover District Council.
The only thing that was confined to Dover Town was the referendum and that was only because of the legislative environment created by the Local Govt Act 1972/3 which, prior to the enactment of the Localism Act 2011, was the only legislation available under which a ballot on a business question could be held.
Port latest is looking good for everyone opposed to privatisation.
At this time and in the economic environment that is and will continue to prevail with regard to public borrowing for investment (or for anything), continued public ownership (Trust Port (modified to protect against future privatisation moves), Local Gov. ownership or Municipal ownership) is likely to stifle continued developments and improvements at the port of Dover. DPPT does not propose a privatisation, or state/public ownership, both models have failed to deliver what they ought to have delivered to ordinary people and the nation, but a communitisation of the port - community, business, workers and finance working together to deliver efficient port operations and improvements to the social and built environment of Dover and the surrounding area that will benefit us all.
Book one of this epic is, for better or worse, coming to a close. Book two offers a whole new and brighter future to us all if it is done right and getting it right takes time and effort.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
When the answer comes back from Govt on the DHB request for transfer, the port will remain, for a time, a Trust Port just as it is now. The protections within Trust Port Status that we all need to ensure that the port is never again on the sale block would require an Act of Parliament. Such an Act would be at least 2 and a half years from inception to Royal Assent - long time. Alternatively, primary legislation has already been passed which creates the conditions under which the future of the port could be settled in perpetuity after approx 6 months of Parliamentary scrutiny of the order so created under the auspices of this legislation - Public Bodies Act 2011
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
There is no reason whatsoever why the DfT should delay on a decision concerning the Port of Dover.
Many representations have been accepted as relevant, and are being taken into consideration, and as such are already officially on the table. This is what the Department for Transport wrote to me, underlining that DPPT is not being treated in any way different to other persons or entities that made a representation.
Official statements from the DfT are better to go by, especially if they expressly contradict other statements.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Alexander, time and time and time again all of us have made it abundantly clear that everyone's individual and corporate submissions with regard to the DHB proposals are treated in exactly the same way. No one has made any statement or suggested that it was otherwise except for yourself.
However, the fact remains that the only alternative vision (aside from the status quo) for the future governance and ownership structure of the port that has been fully costed and which has developed and tested a full business plan as well as demonstrating widespread and significant levels of support from across the District and beyond is the DPPT's.
As far as the submissions to the DfT on the DHB proposals are concerned, each and every submission is treated equally. As far as the long term future of the port is concerned, the only costed, financially backed and planned out alternative will inevitably influence the final disposition of the port's governance and ownership once the DHB have been dismissed. Don't forget that the only offer to buy the port that is in the public domain has come from DPPT and that offer still stands.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Neil, if the Government is intent on selling the Port of Dover, then perhaps there are two options: DHBs offer of privatisation, or the DPPT offer to the Government to sell the Port.
DPPT's bid to have the Port sold by borrowing money and using it to buy the Port of Dover would leave our Harbour in a debt from which it would never extricate itself, similar as to the DHB proposal.
We could wave good-bye to any regeneration in Dover, and the District and County wouldn't get any benefit anyway. And it would be questionable if even the Port managed to survive as a functional entity.
My proposal to the DfT is not to sell the Port at all. That it should remain a State asset, transferred (free of charge) to Local Government, and thereby to the local Community (Communities). DHB could even remain the Port's operator, as long as Port profits are invested in the Port.
A separate public port toll in all British ports would finance local regeneration, as it would be shared between Central and local Government Administration. This is the equivalent - I underline equivalent - of a road toll as found in Europe.
Even the Government has meanwhile recognised that we need a form of road toll, which only underlines how right I was in my representations, starting in February 2010, stating that a Port Toll is needed in all British ports, as this is - at least to a large extent - the equivalent to a road toll.
I cannot understand how anyone could agree to our Port being sold by the Government and ending up in a massive debt, these being the proposals of DHB and DPPT.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
if i am reading your post correctly alex you are suggesting that the town and district councils should own the port and dhb run it.
i do not share your confidence in either scenario, might just as well ask me, keith and brian to take it over.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
That's right Alexander - you cannot understand!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No change there then.
The thought of the Council being in charge of the Port gives me a sense of horror and would do even if I were still an elected member.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Alex.
Under DHB Trust, the port makes money(profit) fact.
If PP wins, that profit along with future plans will be factored into purchase.
The purchase cost is not a debt, it's an investment.
I'm no expert but nobody would think of financing PP if they were not confident of its success and of the ability for Neils managment team.
Neil.
Apolgies for sounding a bit thick, I live in Deal, can I purchase a £10 membership?
I thought it was restricted to only those who were entitled to vote on the referendum.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"