howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
bit of an old trick that one, similar to cutting different services over a long period of time then saying that people have voted with their feet and gone further afield.
without a public display of disapproval with the t.v. stations tipped off we will be left with a minor injuries unit and a blood test centre.
The way its going even the blood test centre wont be there .
A bit of intelligent and determined challenge would be in order I think. Perhaps we could collate a few stats of our own? If the local reps really do want to protect and support Dover perhaps they could fund a proper referendum.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
there would be no money in the kitty for another referendum, i remember town councillor chris p talking about this at the time.
i cannot remember the amount spent but it definitely made a dent in the finances.
So, for want of a referendum we lose a hospital?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I am sorry but I think some of you are over reacting,yes it would be great to have all the services that a town the size of Dover should have, but we all know that will not happen so we have to get the best deal that we can.
All I am saying is that the rally could,I am not saying it will,I am saying it could again put a hold on geting the hospital A.S.P.
Lets get the Hospital build first, none of us, and that counts for me too, know100% what services it is going to have when it opens.
Once the Hospital is up, then go on from there about trying for some of the services that Dover needs.
Now before all of you shout me down,and I know you love to do that.
I am free to put over my views in the same way as you all are.
I do not call anyone names ETC. Disagree with me is onething but let it end there. Thank you.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i don't see how a referendum is that important.
if you ask people whether they want a new hospital, better schools, improved public transport etc the vote will always be about 100% for it.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Sorry Vic but I do disagree with your point here. Once you let them build a glorified health centre they will sell off the remaining land and then you are left with basic clinic facilities and nowhere to expand with proper wards, surgical facilities etc. As you are well aware one of the stumbling blocks (or at least the excuse given for delays) has been the difficulties in finding land and establishing ownership. It was made clear at that meeting that their attraction to the Buckland site was that they could build and sell-off the remaining grounds.
Personally I think most of the delays have been a deliberate tactic to enable them to cut services and build up convincing statistics on the use of other sites. Much the same as the continuing delays on the DTIZ have left people so desperate to get rid of Burlington House they will accept the most appalling rubbish if its demolition is included.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Should a referendum be called for it would be the Town Council's statutory duty to hold one and finance would have to be found. I for one would be happy to volunteer my services for counting results to save costs and I can't be the only one.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Agreed. The delays will have been strategically planned and "consultations" will have been the smokescreen. I am not sure why Vic thinks people are over-reacting given that he also thinks we have delayed the building with our apathy. And, Vic, I welcome your views and you are obviously free to express them, so please continue to do so but please stop being defensive and stop adding bits about being shouted down etc. We aee free to disagree with you as you are free to disagree with us. One thing I do find difficult is your inconsistency though. One minute trying to rally the troops to get the thing built, the next - probably because of the people proposing it - dissing ideas other than the meetings you attend. It really does have to be a multi-faceted approach.
PS - I would be happy to count too!!!!
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
BERN
Have to say i agree with your latest posts
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
I have read all the posts and do not understand why we need a referendum.
I doubt we will ever get a 'proper' hospital but the whole of the Dover population must want a hospital of some kind be it a glorified health centre or preferably with some wards.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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I think a referendum would just be another tool to use and support local demands for a hospital fit for local purpose. We cannot assume that what the Dover population might want is important enough to the commissioners to deliver it! We have to be as smart and savvy as they are to get them to part with the right amount of cash - we are not asking for more than that - to build a hospital that will meet local need. no more, no less.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
But why a referendum it would not be binding on the Health Authority and as I said earlier they must know what the town would like. What would be the question on the ballot paper..............'Should the trust provide a fully functioning hospital'
A petition would have just the same clout and would not cost anywhere near the amount as a referendum.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
The NHS Trust will argue based on their view of the statistics they create and the only way to counter them is to produce our own statistics, ones that reflect the case for more and better facilities. Among these are well publicised numbers from a rally, referendum results and we need to amass figures and details of waiting times for ambulances, delays in treatment, numbers of vehicles going through the town, travelling times and costs in getting to Ashford or Margate and anything else people can think of. It is all a numbers game and we just have to be better at it.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Jan.........We had a petition..............32,574.Signatures........delivered by the MP at the time to 10 Downing street.
We did not even get a reply................We followed it up several times...............still no reaction....went in the Bin?
A referendum would get the same treatment I am afraid.........................A Rally is in your `face`......the numbers of
people must be impressive............hopefully radio and television will be involved..............we need to fill market square
and side streets and walk to the town hall to hear the Mayor,MP,councillors etc...................then speak to the Secretary
of State about our ``discussion``when he was Shadow Secretary of State to come up with the `goods`.................
We must spread the word everywhere in towns and the hundred plus villages.
Not sure why people are taking a one size fits all approach. The people with whom we are dealing are skilled at obfuscation, used to batting away stats. Neither a rally, nor meetings, not a referendum on their own will impact. If we work together and use as many tools as possible we have more chance of success. Jan - the commissioners will already know what we want, what we have to do is make them deliver it. Chris post #75 sums it up well.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Hi Bern,
We have met with the GP Consortium throughout the four years campaign.One of them attended the meeting we had with Mr.Landsley when he was Shadow Secretary of State for Health.
We agreed with their list of Health Care Provisions that Dover District needs/deserves including `step down beds`on site.
Dr.Joe Chaudurhi heads up the GP Commission and is in complete agreement with our Campaign and several Doctors from time to time ask us to step up the pressure on the Health Authorities..........Doctors do not have complete control yet.............they are in no mans land.
If you can think of any other `tools`we can use please let us know............we will try anything !!!!!!
We also have a follow up plan when we have the ``Hospital``
Thanks for your interest.....................Spread the word!!!
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Are there any Volunteers to do some leaflet posting in their street/area? reg.hansell@ tiscali .co.uk.Thanks.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Repeat # 79..................For the nightshift !!!
