Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I thought we are still to have a hospital at the Buckland site; is this not the case now ?
I understood there is just a delay on submitting the planning application.
Roger
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger its a hospital in name only,no medicall/surgery wards,no materaty wards as such and to make it worse a nurse lead minor injurys place.if thats a hospital im a monkys uncle.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
quite right brian, that is why no planning application has gone or will be lodged in the foreseeable future.
if they had put one in we would all have found what we were being fobbed off with.
reg and charlie have seen through this hence the rally.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#. 41.............Time Warp................Correct................If.........26th.November..........2008 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
You're a man of few words Reg. doesn't make it easy to read/understand.
It was never going to be a general hospital with in-patient beds, specialist doctors, or surgeons, we have William Harvey for that and QEQM. There's also KCH too.
Maternity services may now be cut because so few people turned up for the meeting at the Town Hall.
You (anyone) can be cynical, but your cynicism makes sure that those bodies doing the public consultations, do get their own way because you don't go to argue. It looks like apathy and because no one cares (or seems to), they'll do as they like.
I'm not against this rally from Market Square to the Town Hall, but it would have been better to have had a mass rally/meeting at the Town Hall where the meeting was held and showed them that you mean business - about maternity services staying in Dover and about the other services you want here.
To sit at home and grumble, saying it's already been decided, means that it then will be decided - and not in your favour, but theirs.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it was always decided that maternity was for the chop, the drip fed statements from the health authority provided all the evidence.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well said howard
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
If the rally had been held at the time of the meeting as you suggest Roger, the meeting would have closed early because of heckling or some other reason.
We all know these kind of meetings or consultations (whatever they are about) are a sop and are pre-decided.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well said jan(our group lol)
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Indeed, the meeting was tightly pre-scripted to avoid specifics and managed that very well. It was a simple PR exercise. The rally might have supported local interests if it could have been a simple mass show of interest and commitment, but sadly I think it would not have mustered enough for that. To just heckle that kind of meeting is pointless as, as has been pointed out, it is not an exchange of ideas, just simple PR and the creation of the appearance of consultation.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#.41 & #.45.
``Time warp...............correct if ........26th Nov 2008.........means .....post is Out of Date!!
To state that Campaigners and our MP Charlie Elphicke cynical,apathetic and sitting at home grumbling is
offensive,naive & ill-informed.
Charlie has attended nearly as many meetings with the several authorities,consultations,town hall meetings etc. as the
Campaigners for the Dover Hospital have.
He has been tenacious in his dealings with the Hospital Campaign as I believe he has on the Dover Port issue.
Being in the Public Eye facing criticism is par for the course for an MP but criticism of him on the Hospital Campaign is
unfounded....................especially from a fellow party member.
Best not to post when not in possession of the facts!!
An unreserved apology to Charlie is required.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Attendance at the last PR exercise was fairly strictly controlled, invitations only going to members of the trust and the numbers of their guests being carefully checked. The answers were well rehearsed and the whole thing was designed to try and show that it was all in the public interest. There is to be a "consultation" on birthing services on 1st December 2011 at The Ark, Noahs Ark Road between 12:00 and 14:00 (that should keep out all those with jobs, children, homes to care for etc.). Interestingly this meeting is referred to as a "roadshow" in the consultation brief document. It is also worth noting that the NHS Trust list their preferred option as being services at Ashford and Margate with 'some' anti natal care at Buckland and Folkestone.
Every one of the presentations has concentrated on trying to show that Dover does not need a hospital because of access to consultants, provision of health care or other factors relating to the financing of one. As evidence they always try and show it as a choice made by Dovorians to go elsewhere when services here are cut.
All mention of the simple travelling logistics is avoided. With operation stack in place I have known it take two and a half hours for an ambulance to get through to answer a call for chronic chest pains. It is a fact that, in Dover, if the weather is such that the helicopter cannot fly we are almost certain to have blockages on the roads because of delays in the port. Not to mention the cost and time involved in Dover families being able to get to Ashford or Margate just to be able to see those in hospital. All these are factors that directly impact on patients health and yet are being ignored by the NHS Trust planners.
A well attended and well publicised rally is the best option to get the message across that a hospital for Dover is the only option for anyone genuinely interested in the well-being of local residents and visitors.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Can anyone attend the "RoadShow" on 1st December or it is royal invitation only again?! It might not be possible but I will try to get the day off. I am tired of the peremptory dismissal of public opinion in these matters. Clearly decisions have to be made across a range of factors and public opinion is only one of those factors, with budgets, logistics and staffing issues all in the frame as well, among others. But the points Chris raises about travel are significant and I am not confident they will have been given the weighting they deserve - and neither will they be if we don't do more than moan and turn up to rehearsed meetings. A range of events and tools can be used to target the appropriate people and groups to make them aware of issues and feelings, and the rally is a good opportunity and one of that range of tools.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
As far as I know, the Roadshow is open to all (despite the awkward timing) and I will be doing my best to get there, child care and other meeting commitments allowing. I am not sure a rally at the last meeting would have had any effect as it was held in the old council chamber in the Town Hall, well away from any disruption at the door, and didn't have space for many more than those that did attend.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
It would simply have been airbrushed, situated as it was, Chris, you are right. And the idea is to demonstrate rather than make points - they can be made in a quieter arena with the backstory of the rally and implied local support. That whole range of tools really does need to be used!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It may horrify those who are worried about town council finances, but I can feel another town referendum coming on. How about it, Reg?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Again I cant attend on the 1st due to work comitments , which is a real pity , I do hope some can attend and give us some detailed feedback
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the whole point of a public rally(in my opinion) is that the agenda is not set by the health authority.
as has been said already on here any demonstration outside a meeting would result in the meeting being called off, though i appreciate the last one was too far away for any disruption.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Maternity services were discussed at a DDC Scrutiny meeting recently and the whole consultation process is open for people to give their input. So please give your thoughts.
We are losing services at the current Buckland hospital and if we aren't careful, by the time a hospital is built, there'll be too few services provided here to be of much benefit.
We need to keep patient services here and get new ones too.
Roger
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Unfortunately Roger, the excuse the Trust keeps using now is that, as far as they are concerned, every time a service is cut they are saying that "Dovorians are choosing to go elsewhere." The fact that such services are no longer available doesn't enter into their thinking and any questions are answered with statistics that show what services are being used elsewhere, and not what services are not available here. It is all window dressing and needs to be challenged.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour