Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
Hi new to this forum,
I originally signed the Goodwin petition on face value as the war graves subject is a touching subject, there were also claims of coastal erosion. I also received the leaflet in the post and called the harbour board to say it sounds like a threat and people don't normally take kindly to threats. I had a really good in depth conversation with the gentleman from the harbour board who informed me that it has been proven that coastal erosion is not going to be a factor, they will not take sand from the seal habitat areas and there are extensive surveys(more than they were legally obliged to perform) to eliminate the chances of disturbing wrecks etc. Also due to the close proximity of the sans the carbon foot print is the smallest it can be source wise. If all of this is true and correct o say do it and try to give Dover something new rather than what it was before. A redundant hoverport. The potential is actually decent when you consider other harbours like Folkestone are doing great work. Progress please.
Brian Dixon, Paul M, Chris and
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,167
Welcome BenjiB,
Your comments make perfect sense!
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"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Maybe if the leaflet had been along the lines of the reply to BenjiB's phone call it might have been received in a more positive way. Instead the DHB chose to threaten and browbeat Dover as well as Deal, DHB are far too used to getting their own way and seem unable to sensibly deal with opposition.
I think they obviously need someone else in charge of public relations and publicity if they want to win us round.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
I did say that to the man I spoke to(sorry I can't remember his name) I said a leaflet with the bullet points on the Goodwin sands dredging would of been far better rather than an attempt at a threat.
I also said why not put this information up on the boards where the work is taking place near the hythe bay restaurant to inform the people who walk by. He said it was a good idea that had not been thought of and these barriers are due to be moved soon as there are cutting the road up for a channel. He said he is going to get the info up next to the proposed plans when the barriers are moved. Seemed sincere.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,167
BenjiB wrote: Seemed sincere.
"The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made."
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"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1831- Registered: 1 Sep 2016
- Posts: 395
Just received their pamphlet .
1. Dovorians will lose hundreds of jobs - it is illegal to give people jobs just because of where they live.
Any jobs will be sourced out.
2. Dovorians will not get a new marina This is to replace the one they are filling in and how many people from Dover actually use it? The Marina's have never been part of Dover Town, the public are not allowed near them.
3. Dovorians will lose opportunity to enjoy new shops, restuarants, bars etc. No investors are showing interest. St James's is still only half full. No new offers on the empty units in the last 12 months.
4. Will get an unfinished waterfront?
Hardly what I would call a waterfront and still no investors, so just a dream.
5. Dover's long wait for regeneration will continue The only certainty with their plan is a concrete pad with square boxes as freight sheds. Which are, in the Eastern docks. Filling in the present marina, to relocate it by taking a huge section of a very popular beach. Gone forever.
Placing restrictions on water sports in the harbour.
6. It is only Dover Harbour Board's greed that needs the sand.
They create confrontation, to divide and rule. Oldest trick in the book.
There is a danger to the eco structure, the changing of the sandbank. Observe what has happened at Shakespeare beach since the channel tunnel reclaimation at Samphire Hoe.
Look at the concrete pad eyesore that now greets people at the Eastern docks.
Guest 2025, Brian Dixon, Guest 649 and
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Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
Post 409 wow pure conjecture there.
So they will outsource all the jobs? Who other than local people will run the shops and restaurants they are on about creating?
The marinas are in Dover therefore are part of our town. Who doesn't like to have a drink sitting by a marina day dreaming of being well off enough to afford a boat?
Yes some of the beach is going which is not great I agree but when honestly other than regatta days is the beach totally full? Not this summer that's for sure. The watersports are still there!
Also is it greed to want the sand. Or is it because it may actually be the best option with the lowest carbon foot print? Far more sand has been taken in the past and Deal/Dover hasn't fallen into the sea yet.
If the surveys come back as conclusively saying no wrecks are touched no wild life endangered and no coastal erosion it would seem like the best option wouldn't it???
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Guest 1831- Registered: 1 Sep 2016
- Posts: 395
Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
Interesting stuff. Maybe this should of been put out there more when they took from the sands repeatedly during other projects? Maybe made it a restricted area so that this situation could not occur. The surveys that are being done will surely find such wrecks therefore can leave them untouched?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
BenjiB wrote:Post 409 wow pure conjecture there.
So they will outsource all the jobs? Who other than local people will run the shops and restaurants they are on about creating?
The marinas are in Dover therefore are part of our town. Who doesn't like to have a drink sitting by a marina day dreaming of being well off enough to afford a boat?
Yes some of the beach is going which is not great I agree but when honestly other than regatta days is the beach totally full? Not this summer that's for sure. The watersports are still there!
Also is it greed to want the sand. Or is it because it may actually be the best option with the lowest carbon foot print? Far more sand has been taken in the past and Deal/Dover hasn't fallen into the sea yet.
If the surveys come back as conclusively saying no wrecks are touched no wild life endangered and no coastal erosion it would seem like the best option wouldn't it???
They have never claimed they would create shops and restaurants and please be assured that there will be no new Marina.
Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
Why will there be no new marina? There are shops/restaurants on the plans!
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,167
howard mcsweeney1 wrote: please be assured that there will be no new Marina.
The one thing that is actually guaranteed IS a new Marina Howard (Unless all that piling I see from the RCPYC is a mirage?)
Whilst I have no idea about DHB's business case for redeveloping the Western Docks, in-fill and all, I do know a bit about marinas.
One only has to see the success of such as Brighton Marina,Sovereign Harbour or even Portishead Harbour, both well away from Brighton,Eastbourne and Bristol respectively (plus plans for Poole
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15384422.Revealed____100m_plans_for_new_marina__374_homes_and_retail_units_at_Sydenhams_site/) to see how they attract shops/restaurants.
If DHB also build around it medium and even high rise upmarket housing (and who would not be attracted by somewhere with the history, countryside, quick links to France, HST to London, Grammar Schools, golf courses and so on as long as it did not involve actually living IN Dover?) it could be brilliant - a bit like the excellent Barbican development yet overlooking my yacht.
Semi pedestrianise York St to give a nice tree lined walk/cycle route to the Railway Station even better! (Perhaps this is why no-ones fixing the roundabout at the top of York St? Just saying.
)
I could flog Marlinspike Hall and the car and move in. (If the kids ever turn up it's a lot cheaper putting them up in the new Travelodge rather than having far too many bedrooms for my carer and myself) With decent bars and cafes in the Marina and my regular Ocado delivery - sorted.
Certainly better than building yet more Letraset rabbit hutches with parking for 1.6 cars all over prime agricultural land at Whitfield I would suggest. What's not to like?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 652- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 595
I am nothing to do with , DHB, but Dover needs this regeneration, post 409, (5. Dover's long wait for regeneration will continue The only certainty with their plan is a concrete pad with square boxes as freight sheds. Which are, in the Eastern docks.)
The freight will be moving back to the western, where it was many moons ago, there are not enough sheds in the Eastern to accommodate stuff as it is, cargo is on the increase, so growth on that score is needed.
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SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
Jan Higgins wrote:Maybe if the leaflet had been along the lines of the reply to BenjiB's phone call it might have been received in a more positive way. Instead the DHB chose to threaten and browbeat Dover as well as Deal, DHB are far too used to getting their own way and seem unable to sensibly deal with opposition.
I think they obviously need someone else in charge of public relations and publicity if they want to win us round.
Sorry, but that is a bit unfair. DHB have explained this extensively. Neil Wiggins likewise made all the same points, and was shot down for it. Some people simply don't want to listen because their longstanding grievances with DHB mean they have already made their minds up.
For what it's worth, I agree with BenjiB. The MMO will make a decision on the Goodwins, based on the evidence. That is good enough for me, whatever they decide. If the Goodwins can be dredged with minimal impact to wildlife, and sympathetically with regards to any remains and wrecks etc., that must be great news for Dover.
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SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:...and please be assured that there will be no new Marina.
Based on what? Perhaps you can post a link to back that up. Or have you just made it up?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
SWWood wrote:Sorry, but that is a bit unfair. DHB have explained this extensively. Neil Wiggins likewise made all the same points, and was shot down for it.
Sorry, but I feel my assessment was entirely justified. DHB could easily have given the information they gave BenjiB in the leaflet instead they chose to be their usual bombastic selves by trying to frighten people with threats.
Neil has repeatedly told us he is giving his own opinion not that of DHB, I respect Neil and his opinion unlike some others on here who are blinded to anything he says by their apparent dislike.
Regarding Howard's comment #413, I disagree it will be built as it should be a substantial money earner for DHB and hopefully in the long term for the town.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I think DHB should learn quickly it's media focus has slipped for whatever reason.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,087
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:...please be assured that there will be no new Marina.
Don't want to presume here, but perhaps what HM1 is getting at is that there will be no new marina in the sense that you'll buy a new pair of shoes to add to your already existing pair, but that there will (or may) be a marina to replace the one that will be filled with cement, water and an aggregate (the origin of which is yet to be determined), i.e. a substitute marina. (I was going to add that it will come on late in the game and get sent off just before the final whistle, but I won't bother.)
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
Jan Higgins wrote:Sorry, but I feel my assessment was entirely justified. DHB could easily have given the information they gave BenjiB in the leaflet instead they chose to be their usual bombastic selves by trying to frighten people with threats.
My point was that everything metioned in BenjiB's post had already been well publicised. That some people choose to ignore it is not DHB's fault.
There is little doubt that DHB have changed their tone in recent weeks, and have started to to give concise warnings of what is at stake for Dover here. Of course, as soon as they do that, they are accused of bullying and scare tactics (flashbacks of the brexit debate), but their tone isn't really any different to that of the Save Our Sands group.
Guest 1831- Registered: 1 Sep 2016
- Posts: 395
