Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
So just one person to agree that the Dover CHRISTIANS closed the beacon church
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Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Make it two Keith.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
"The final decision about the future of closed church buildings rests with the Church Commissioners. They are helped by the advice of the Statutory Advisory Committee of the Church Buildings Council. Before a proposal for a new use, demolition or preservation can take effect the Commissioners (through their Closed Churches Division) must prepare and publish a draft scheme and consider any representations."
http://www.churchofengland.org/clergy-office-holders/pastoralandclosedchurches/closedchurches/overview.aspx-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Jan
im quite a habit of this now I agree with you again
terry
you don't agree that the church leaders closed the church?
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Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
It was the people who worship in the church that decided it was redundant. Outsiders, in whatever form, are not involved.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The people running the church would I thought have links to to being Christians lol
and in the mercury last week church leaders were stating falling numbers reason why the CHRISTIANS closed the church
no other outside bodies
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all a bit of a storm in an egg cup, the congregation can carry on as per usual in the church hall, hopefully some of the profit from the sale will be ploughed back into a fund that will ensure future repairs/uogrades in the hall.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Church superiors were quoted as saying they would be happy for flats to be built there once they sold the church
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Keith S, your post 3 reads:
"You will recall Howard Alexander was under the impression the Christchurch church on Folkestone Road was closed by the council, just trying to help, church's are closed by Church Councils, those running the church's nothing to do with local authorities".
I never suggested, Keith, the Council closed this church in Folkestone Road.
My point was that the Council signed a piece of paper allowing it to be ripped down and the land to be developed with flats.
Although you are right that Church heads are responsible for their decisions.
As you may know, Christchurch in Folkestone Road was C/E, and as the queen is considered the head of the C/E, she is ultimately responsible for the demolishing of the church dedicated to Christ, a church that was in excellent condition.
Because YOU brought up the point of Christchurch in Folkestone Road in post 3 and made reference to me, I have given you an appropriate reply in various posts here.
If someone is considered the head of Christchurch and bears the title Defender of the Faith, but then allows Christ's Church to be ripped down and the land sold for money money money, while living the life of Riley in palaces, then certainly that title no longer refers to them.
I saw it from the point of view of the Fair Lady, whose Church, in the East - West line of the rising and setting sun, indicates the road leading to Christ's Church in Folkestone Road.
There was no Christ Church left, only the foundations and the original plan.
So I asked: who was the head of this church?, and on ascertaining it was the queen, as it was part of the C/E, I concluded she is not Defender of the Faith.
I also took into account that she lives in many palaces on many estates and manages vast sums of personal money for personal use.
It's too late now, Keith, C/E Christ's Church is gone and the queen is not the head of this Church.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
May I add that Christ is the Head of his own Church, and reiterate that the English Church was established in Kent by King Ethelbert some one thousand years before Henry VIII.
King Ethelbert did not proclaim Henry VIII as head of the English Church, but Christ.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Henry VIII stole from English churches, ripped down priories and sold the land, and reduced many into poverty along the way.
This he did after receiving the title Defender of the Faith from the pope.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Alexander;
I think finally you have AGREED it's the Christians within the Beacon church that decided to close it
so at last we have agreement there.
now, once the church decides to sell the land(which was there quote) and happy to see flats built where the church presently stands, is the sticking point maybe for you.
Now, once the land is sold(no longer belonging to the church) whoever buys it can do with it what they wish(within planning regs)
So if at this point the planning dept gets a planning application from the NEW OWNERS to build flats
the planning dept couldn't turn it down
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Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
However, this still doesn't address the question of the war memorial in the church, plus the other artefacts.
I'm not sure it's safe to assume that commercial developers will preserve such things - they will develop according to their creed. This, I would assume, is basically to make money. Therefore, if the windows etc are a hindrance to this end and there is no protection, they will go.
Should this be permitted? We have already lost war memorials in Dover. Yet this need not be so as there is also a good example in Dover of a war memorial being moved to a new situation. Does anyone know what are the intentions for the precious items of the church should it be demolished?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Maggie
That will be down to the CHRISTIANS before they sell it off and who to
to take away the history
but the building itself well
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the tragically burnt down church in the town was lovingly restored in order to make the flats worth more money, that should be the case with the beacon church.
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
Slightly off subject but I have always had problems coming to terms with "The Lord is my shepherd" when so many lairages are sited on Cof E land.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
is it the catholics that are the only ones that don't have falling church goers???
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
There are more practicing Catholics than Anglicans. Muslims come a close third.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
thought so
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Keith, don't place words in my mouth, please!
I've answered your post 3 full stop!