Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,878
I believe the big problem at the moment is that most future or present politicians of all parties are career based with university education rather than the idealists of old.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
For decades Labour's had internal tensions between its eternal-student tendency and its US junkie tendency. (Many, of course, move from the former to the latter - Blair, many of his cabinet, and Starmer were activists in various Trotskyist groups, the IMG, Pabloites etc. BTW, this doesn't mean their ideological attachments changed; just their means of achieving them.) Much of the time the two align perfectly (blm, lgbtq..., covid heavy manners, 'climate change', and most recently the 'Slava Ukraini' cult), but these are now all either bust or in the process of busting.
The Palestine-Israel pull within Labour perfectly maps onto these two broad tendencies, and this, combined with Labour's open borders immigration position, is about to bear some very juicy fruit for it (and for us, too, I suspect), and it will not be able to dissociate itself from the consequences.
The recent incoherent mumbling and blathering performances by Lammy and Starmer only make sense if seen in the light of US foreign policy objectives. But that ship is holed and sinking. If there are zero Conservative politicians who understand this and show any appreciation whatsoever of geopolitical complexities and realities, there are fewer of these in Labour.
Finally (wrt Evans' email), isn't the sheer number of -isms and -phobias any Labour member needs to negotiate nowadays incredible? It must mean that any Party meeting, even a local one, has to be attended by some political enforcer from Central Committee.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
Oh for the good old days, when we had 'conviction politics' rather than convicted politicians!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Captain Haddock wrote:Oh for the good old days, when we had 'conviction politics'
Well, yes! Missing too are idealists/conviction politicians prepared to explain their position/beliefs and convince me why they are right, rather than post an on-line newsletter saying/claiming what they have done or, at election times, post printed bumpf consisting of a lament of the shortcomings of their opponents. My memory dims about what was actually said, but I recall as a new voter hearing Tony Benn speak and being impressed that he engaged with his audience, especially the (young) ones who argued with him.
Reginald Barrington and Captain Haddock like this
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
I think we can see from the article on how Starmer won't allow the freedom of speech unless it agrees with his viewpoint .
Oh for the days at conference where they were not stage managed .
But Neil it's interesting to have your view on the future of the NHS when it appears W. Streeting, and Starmer are being financed by private health companies as to where Labour really is on the NHS.
Without doubt Neil , this is more about getting into number ten and throwing all the policies out the window to appeal to tory voters .
As we near the general election we may hopefully hear of a policy that may help the rest of us struggling for survival.
The latest article from Labour on Israel is again just showing the freedom of speech no longer exists
And according to Labour it's ok for the Israeli govt to soon go in and kill hundreds of thousands innocent Palestinians.
This will include innocent children.
Of course Hammas were wrong and terrorists I don t t think m a my disagree on that, the picture is a little wider than that where we are likely to see many innocent peopl e die.
On top of this wi t h the ongoing Israeli govt continued push to get Palestinian s out of the homes they live in is hidden in this .
There will be few winners in the Israeli situation , and really if Hammas are known as terrorists then surely allowing the Israeli Govt to go in to kill innocent people puts them in the same category.
Over to you Neil
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Taking first the NHS, the difference, as I see it, is that Labour genuinely cares about it, whereas the Tories would scrap it in the blink of an eye if they thought they would get away with it. But that said, the NHS cannot be considered off limits for serious reform. It's not perfect - no health system is - but consideration should be given to the use of more private capacity if that's considered helpful. Very few health systems have replicated the NHS, and there's a reason for that. The introduction of some form of additional funding/capacity would be welcome, be that co payments or private provision in some areas. The guiding principle, however, must remain - free at the point of access for those who need it.
But I agree the strategy being followed at the moment is do nothing, say nothing and we win by default. People just want to see competent government at this point, and Labour can offer that - but you're right that in time we all want to see the big vision. That will come.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
Neil Moors wrote:Taking first the NHS, the difference, as I see it, is that Labour genuinely cares about it, whereas the Tories would scrap it in the blink of an eye if they thought they would get away with it.
FWIW I have never met a Tory who would ' would scrap it in the blink of an eye'.
Jan Higgins likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,878
Captain for years that has been one of the often used quotes from the Labour side
, a bit like everything that is not perfect is the fault of "this Government" a favourite of union and Labour spokesmen
.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Ironically, the one thing that might unlock a trade deal with the US is access to the NHS. It's the thing we have that everyone wants a part of...
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
Neil
The NHS is no safer in Labour's hands as the leaders as I pointed out above are securing finance from private medicine so I note again Neil avoids such comments.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Keith Sansum1 wrote:Neil
The NHS is no safer in Labour's hands as the leaders as I pointed out above are securing finance from private medicine so I note again Neil avoids such comments.
See #1186.
(Not my real name.)
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
The NHS is obviously in safer hands with Labour than Tories, but in all cases it can't escape reform - as I mentioned earlier. Wes Streeting has been quite transparent on that.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
Difficult thing being all thing to all men
And women obviously
(Whatever they are!)
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,927
Neil
Look at the above ,
Cllrs resigning over Labour's view on Israel .
NAH safe in Labour's hands , clearly not if starmer and arresting being finan c ed by private medicine
Over to you Neil
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Keith Sansum1 wrote:Neil
Look at the above , Cllrs resigning over Labour's view on Israel .
NAH safe in Labour's hands , clearly not if starmer and arresting being finan c ed by private medicine
Over to you Neil
See #1186 and #1193.
(Not my real name.)
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
WGS #1182: 'The Palestine-Israel pull within Labour perfectly maps onto these two broad tendencies, and this, combined with Labour's open borders immigration position, is about to bear some very juicy fruit for it (and for us, too, I suspect), and it will not be able to dissociate itself from the consequences'.
Jus' sayin'.
Captain Haddock likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,092
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
