Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
WGS, I missed that one.
The most interesting thing about it for me was the obvious dislike of France, seems we are not alone in our opinion of that country.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
The UK political landscape is, simplistically, a two party system where we generally understood each parties position and proposition. I say this as only 2 parties are, or have been in with any chance of creating a government,
Sadly Brexit has split both parties and the country in such a way that the traditional approaches of both major parties will not solve this problem.
Perhaps we need a new political approach (TIG/Change UK anyone?) or perhaps a more representative voting system (STV perhaps) that encourages a more collegiate and consensual way of solving problems, or we could carry on as we are endlessly holding indicative votes that fail to get carried and shuttling backwards and forwards to Brussels etc trying to get someone else to suggest a solution to our own mess.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
Wow, article on the ILB that I can't fault:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47786455, other than to observe that it doesn't mention "meat" checks being performed away from the border in the case of railfreight. On the other hand, first mention I've heard of a "border" between continental EU and the British Isles (including Eire) - something I'd missed.
(Not my real name.)
Guest 3065- Registered: 10 Jan 2019
- Posts: 145
Roll on brexit
Guest 3065- Registered: 10 Jan 2019
- Posts: 145
Government are being taken to court by Robin Tilbrook as he is saying we are already out of the EU as they have broken the law to extend article 50 brilliant news plus another lawyer is taking the government to court
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,849
Ross Miller wrote:Perhaps we need a new political approach (TIG/Change UK anyone?) or perhaps a more representative voting system.
Check the histories of the 'Change UK' bunch as MPs, RM, especially as regards expenses and lobbying for large companies and foreign governments. 'Same Old UK' would be more appropriate.
FPTP's bust. PR's a must. (Now there's a slogan.) The objection that PR would produce a bunch of reps who couldn't make a decision to save their lives has been blown out of the water by the Brexit shenanigans.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Some form of PR is a must and most other European countries get by on it and think our system is archaic. The problem is getting voters to agree and therefore supporters of the two main parties won't go with it as they would be unlikely to hold absolute power in the future.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kimmie, I am afraid to say that we are still in, all though Brexit day has come and gone we are still in until every thing is signed off.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
PR seems to be the fairest system for voters but only if those elected actually can work with each other and follow through on their promises to the electorate.
As the Brexit referendum has shown they have the ability to ignore the public voting result whenever they feel like it, maybe referendum results should be binding in future with no wriggle out leeway.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
WGS I have little faith in TIG or whatever they are now called, though at least they are trying to be a little different.
We most absolutely need a new paradigm in UK politics, as the current tired, pettily corrupt, same old face system we have isn't working.
With regard to voting systems we need to move away from FPTP and move to a more representative system with perhaps 75% of the seats elected at constituency level using something like STV and 25% from a party list system based on overall national first preference votes thus ensuring minor parties stand a chance of getting represented.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Theresa's latest missive is now winging its way to Brussels seeking an extension to June 30th. All sorts of complications in that approach. And so the misery goes on.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ray hutstone wrote:Theresa's latest missive is now winging its way to Brussels seeking an extension to June 30th. All sorts of complications in that approach. And so the misery goes on.
This is being promoted as some sort of safety net that is highly unlikely to be used but experience shows that if there is no short cut off date then negotiations tend to move at a snail's pace. The EU will surely see the ramifications if the UK takes part in the upcoming European elections with the Brexit party likely to sweep the board under our PR system therefore causing more headaches in Brussels. The PM will soon see that Corbyn and co are not going to meet her halfway on anything which can only mean we crash out with no deal and i suspect the EU are getting resigned to the fact.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,849
She's like a flighty mature student living it up in her first year away from Mummy and Daddy, playing uppy-downy in the halls of residence lifts all night and setting off fire alarms with burned toast instead of working on her essays. It won't matter how many extensions the committee grants her, she's heading for a fail or, at best, a 3rd.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
A snap poll shows that 25% of us would boycott a European election if we stay in a bit longer but I thought even more didn't vote in them in the past.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Who to believe?
Labour say that the PM will not budge on anything yet the Chancellor says there are no red lines in the discussions.
No talks planned all weekend suggests that there is no give and take on either side.
Jan Higgins likes this
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,206
I don't believe for one moment that Corbyn would play a serious roll in cross party talks,
I can only see him manipulating the situation for his own political gain, its all he knows.
Jan Higgins likes this
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Sunday Times.
Theresa May is preparing to offer Jeremy Corbyn a legally binding soft Brexit deal with a “Boris lock” that would make it difficult for a future Eurosceptic prime minister to tear up after she leaves No 10.
In a last-ditch attempt to leave the EU this year, May’s team is drawing up plans to enshrine in law a guarantee that MPs would have the ultimate say on a final deal with Brussels. Senior figures in Downing Street will tell Tory MPs that they face a “stark choice” — accept a rebranded customs union with Brussels or “lose Brexit”.
Cross-party talks stalled on Friday after Labour complained that May was not prepared to rewrite the political declaration with Brussels, which maps out what Britain wants from the second phase of negotiations. But in a sign that May is prepared to soften her approach, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, said the government had “no red lines” left. Under the new plan, the prime minister would offer to rewrite the government’s withdrawal bill to enshrine a customs arrangement in law. That is designed to satisfy Labour fears that any deal reached with May would be ripped up by her successor. The “Boris lock” would mean a Eurosceptic leader taking over would have to overturn primary legislation to get a hard Brexit. In another concession, which would enrage her party, May’s aides have discussed offering Labour a seat in her delegation to Wednesday’s EU summit.
May hopes to secure a deal with Labour before the European Council meeting, when she will ask for an extension to the Brexit deadline until June 30. In a boost for the cross-party talks, a snap poll by Labour found 42% of voters backed the parties co-operating, with 27% opposed. Labour, Tory, remain and leave voters all backed the talks by significant margins. May warned Eurosceptics last night that unless they back her, Brexit could be lost altogether because the UK would be forced into a long extension that would give remainers space to revoke article 50 or force a second referendum. “The longer this takes, the greater the risk of the UK never leaving,” May said. “It would mean letting the Brexit the British people voted for slip through our fingers. I will not stand for that. We have a stark choice: leave the European Union with a deal or do not leave.” More than 100 grassroots Tory chairmen and party officers signed a letter urging May to resign for trying to do business with Labour. They warned that the Conservatives would be “decimated” in local or European elections “if we don’t deliver what the country knows to be Brexit.
“Mrs May working with Mr Corbyn to turn Brexit into essentially staying in the EU without a vote at the table is considered by many activists as the last straw. “This is a step too far, which will destroy our party.” The new offer to Labour comes as May’s team uncovered a plot by remainer MPs, in concert with John Bercow, the Commons Speaker, to try as early as tomorrow to force a second referendum to be held.
Tory sources claimed that Bercow has agreed to tear up Commons rules again to allow MPs to apply for an emergency debate and then vote on a substantive motion in support of a second referendum.
Emergency debates do not normally come with binding votes. But a senior government source accused MPs backing a referendum and Bercow of “cooking this up for weeks”. Led by Tom Brake, a Liberal Democrat, the MPs plan to pair a referendum with another soft Brexit option, such as a customs union to maximise support. If ministers organise new votes on different Brexit alternatives, they want to isolate the referendum option so it can be defeated.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Sunday Telegraph.
A new pro-Brexit party is lining up prominent businessmen and academics to stand in European Parliament elections, Nigel Farage has revealed. With the Tories and Labour now scrambling to select candidates in time for the poll on May 23, the former Ukip leader has confirmed that his new ‘Brexit Party’ will be competing for nearly all of the 73 seats. They will have candidates running in 70 areas but they will not be challenging the DUP for the three Ulster seats. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph on Saturday night, the former Ukip leader said candidates would be drawn from “all walks of life” and a number would be household figures. Mr Farage added that the party was selecting representatives from “all areas of the country” and that many of them would hail from non-political backgrounds.
“We will have a full slate of candidates featuring people from all walks of life, including business and academia, and all areas of the country,” he continued. “Many have never been party political before and some of them will have instant name recognition." It comes 24 hours after Mr Farage announced that he would be standing for reelection to the European Parliament, adding that they now looked “certain they will happen”.
Whilst he claimed he was “not happy” about it, he said was not prepared “after 25 years of endeavour to watch British politicians roll us over”. Writing for The Telegraph on Friday, he added that his new party was “fully mobilised” and had begun “raising good sums of money”. In a warning shot to Theresa May, he claimed that the two main political parties “underestimate the dramatic shift in public opinion that has taken place in recent weeks and months”. It comes after a YouGov poll published on Friday found that a quarter of Leave voters would now vote for Ukip or the new Brexit Party. Meanwhile, Ukip leader Gerard Batten scotched suggestions on Saturday that Tommy Robinson, the former founder of the English Defence League, would stand for the party. Asked whether he was on Ukip’s list of candidates, Mr Batten told LBC that Robinson was prohibited from standing as he was neither a party member or permitted to join under the current rules. "It's never been possible, and he wouldn't be considered anyway,” he continued. "The only people who have been selected are ones that have either had a proven track record of loyalty to the party or fought previous elections for the party, or in one or two cases which are going to give us a bit of fun in that election are people who can give us a lot more exposure in the social media."