Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bleeding Brexit moaners, never happy are they.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The understanding of European history displayed on here is both pitiful and ludicrous at the same time.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,220
Right now, I don't see how a deal can happen. From the EU side, it has never made any sense for the UK to come out of this well, as if we did, everyody else would want more of the same. And, to take this to school playground level - we started it. There is no obligation on the EU to do a deal.
From our side, it is now clear that the ERG is running the country. They too are rather inclined not wo want a deal, because they are simply a bunch of right wing fanatics determined to see us break as far away from Europe as possible .
Project Fear is starting to meet Project reality in a pretty serious way.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Rather a crass and insulting post Ray, my knowledge and understanding of European history is neither pitiful or ludicrous but quite extensive and I suspect the same applies to other members.
ray hutstone wrote:The understanding of European history displayed on here is both pitiful and ludicrous at the same time.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
ray hutstone wrote:The understanding of European history displayed on here is both pitiful and ludicrous at the same time.
I doubt that Ray is referring to you Howard, but I could possibly accept that statement if it hadn’t been made by a committed europhile in love with all things connected to his beloved EU and all it stands for.
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,636
ray hutstone wrote:The understanding of European history displayed on here is both pitiful and ludicrous at the same time.
Is that ancient or modern European history?
My ancient is a bit rusty but I always thought my modern was quite good having lived through a lot of it.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Having studied the period from the death of Victoria until 1950 at O level, and having been alive and interested in current affairs for most of the subsequent years, I would say that my understanding of it is pretty adequate although I would admit a shortage of detail on the 65 Italian governmentsbsince WWII.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,822
My interest in this is political rather than economic. I voted Remain, but accept the result and wouidn't advocate another referendum. The Bishop was right in an earlier post about Benn's 5 questions, and Ray was right in that the ERG have ideological motives that their Brexit manouvres are masking. I now see leaving as presenting an opportunity for real democratic self-determination. But I also believe that won't happen, as neither the parliamentary Remain or Brexit camps are interested in the democratic bit: the FPTP, serve-your-term, Commons/Lords system suits them.
FWIW re European history, I think we started to go wrong in 1660.
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
WGS do you think then that we should not have restored Charles II to the throne but destroyed the monarchy instead? That would have made us by now (I think) the oldest republic in Europe. Fascinating to speculate how the intervening 358 years might have evolved. Hmmmmm, I can feel a historical novel coming on!
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Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,201
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Arte et Marte
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I don't have a beloved EU. I do believe that the EU has been a force of good the vast majority of its citizens. I'm quite happy to paint the historical facts to support my argument with anyone who cares to challenge me over them rather than relying on cant and bigotry. I come from an old army family. I'm not going to apologise for that. My late Dad fought for what he believed in - bringing Europe together so that the the warring idiots couldn't do what they had done for centuries before.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
as my father did ray.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,822
Pablo wrote:WGS do you think then that we should not have restored Charles II to the throne but destroyed the monarchy instead? That would have made us by now (I think) the oldest republic in Europe. Fascinating to speculate how the intervening 358 years might have evolved. Hmmmmm, I can feel a historical novel coming on!
Suffice to say I would have been on the radical side in the Putney debates. And to think we had a
head start on the French. Quelle douleur.
My father also fought in WW2, and survived. But I'm not convinced that uniting the nations is a desirable course of action: though there hasn't been a major international military conflict on mainland Europe since 1945, we have had civil war, cold war and nuclear proliferation, not forgetting myriad proxy wars in the ME, all enough to keep the MIC going, and some. Harmony is desirable, of course, but not unity, if that's what it entails. Besides, the EU showed what it could do when it stitched up Greece and, more recently, Italy.
Guest 1881, howard mcsweeney1, Paul M and
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
My dad also spent six years in the war, landing like many thousands of others on the beaches of Normandy and fighting his way to Berlin. Not sure that he had any vision though of bringing Europe together as such, he was only there because he had to be and at that time his only thoughts were to kill Germans and get back home in one piece, which apparently at times seemed unlikely!
Judith Roberts, Weird Granny Slater, ray hutstone and
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,636
Europe are not really united and to be honest I doubt it ever will be as every country wants to put its own interests first which is only natural.
Some countries are still fighting each other, thank goodness the big difference is now with words not guns and long may that last.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Bit of a fudge from the Home office who in this digital age would need to do an extensive manual check to find out how many border staff are working for them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-customs-officers-eu-uk-no-deal-europe-ports-airports-home-office-a8456881.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The situation gets ever more farcical with Remain and Leave supporters from the same party agreeing on what lies ahead. As I have said before the bigwigs in London and Brussels will simply fly over the problem whilst food rots on the roads below.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-would-see-uk-state-of-emergency-warns-dominic-grieve-11445199Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
According to Project Fear they won’t be able to fly over after Brexit Day.
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