Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,902
I skim-read post 2115 and was ready to be pleasantly surprised by Mr Redwood, until I re-read it and realised it was the usual collection of nouns trying to be a sentence. Not that he's the only one by any means; I confess I haven't read Hansard yet but why MPs seem to be reported as losing it over UK collects EU duties vs EU collects UK ones, I have absolutely no idea. Guys, time is short - for pity's sake debate something meaningful, like EU checks on products of animal origin or rules of origin.
Oh and John, I think you mean CT rather than TIR; nice try though.
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(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I don't know why you try to be a pragmatist, Button, but I admire your fortitude. I do fear for the future of Dover for the next few years though. And all totally avoidable. And Charlie has allied himself to the European Research Group seemingly.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
If so then I have got it wrong about Charlie, backing some outlandish group like that will do his career no good in the long term. Once the dust has settled pragmatism will take over and people like Rees-Mogg and Johnson will be yesterday's men.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,902
Ah yes, Charlie - I expect we're due for another 'invest in border systems and be ready for every eventuality' bang of the drum. Well, bring it on - but how one designs a system when one may not be required (Chequers) or when we don't know what it's meant to do (every other option) is a bit of a snag really.
(Not my real name.)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
charly doing what the voters voted him to do. get us out
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
rees-mogg and Johnson are being investigated over Brexit over spending,files are being prepard for a police investigation.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Brian Dixon wrote:rees-mogg and Johnson are being investigated over Brexit over spending,files are being prepard for a police investigation.
Wow, shock horror!
Another good reason I guess for a second referendum as the first must now surely be classed as “illegal”?
Probably the reason as well why the idiot leave voters didn’t vote the right way!
I wonder if Cameron’s lying taxpayer funded nine million pound pro EU booklet comes into the equation anywhere? Just saying!
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brace yourself John, there won't be a second Referendum but there will be another chance for us all to vote again on the issue which will upset that lady in Bristol. Our betters are in a no win position and need to deflect blame on us for their shortcomings.
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Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
ray hutstone wrote:You've deftly ignored the economic arguments, Your Grace, and the potential for enormous damage to this country. As for Tony Benn's 5 questions, I hope you will be prepared to ask them of the Brexiteers in 5 years time if the worst comes to the worst.
I agree that there is 'potential for enormous damage', the negotiations need to be handled as deftly as my alleged economic argument fudge.
For the record, I don't expect the economic situation to improve in the short term but there is no reason, other than bloody-mindedness, that the medium and long term cannot be better.
The EU is not a club for the citizens of Europe it is for the wealthy of Europe, it is another 'Bildeberg' club - you and I don't get a say in the Bildeberg club and neither do we in the EU club (despite the MEP illusion). I am not prepared to sell my right to have my say for a short term pseudo gain.
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Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I understand what you're saying, Your Grace. But the EU club is much more concerned about citizens' rights than the alternative offered in this country.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,902
I hope this is a case of bad BBC phraseology, but I fear it isn't: "The [pro-EU Conservative] MPs wanted the UK to join a customs union if it does not agree a free-trade deal with the EU."
So the motion before the House this time was... if we don't agree a deal with the EU... we ought to agree a deal with the EU.
Is it me, or has there been an outbreak of sunstroke in London?
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
As both sides becomes so entrenched, it is so worrying that we have to contend with this verbiage rather than face the facts. It's not you, Button. It must be the sunstroke, I guess.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
never mind john, there will be a hard choice next referendum.
in.
out.
and kiss my backside.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,227
So, according to Government whips, had it not been for 4 Labour MPs voting with the Government, we would have had a vote of no confidence and a subsequent GE.
Having been furious with UKIP Kate Hoey last night, I am now far more relaxed as it occurs to me that now is not the time to be in Government, rather, better to be in opposition and wait for the Brexit shambles to play out in its entirety.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,902
I would not be surprised if most parliamentarians come out of the shower hoping for a Pam Ewing and cursing Groundhog Day.
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
Theresa May threatened Conservative rebels with a general election this summer if they defeated her plans on customs after Brexit. Whips issued the warning to Remain-backing MPs, led by the former ministers Stephen Hammond and Nicky Morgan, minutes before a crucial vote last night that would have kept Britain inside a customs union. The prime minister survived the vote by a majority of six, although 12 of her MPs walked through the opposition division lobbies in defiance.
One rebel revealed the threats by Chris Pincher, the deputy chief whip. “[Pincher] said they would pull the third reading of the [trade] bill and call a vote of confidence. He said we’d be responsible for a general election and putting Jeremy Corbyn in No 10. It was appalling behaviour. Totally disgraceful.” Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act two votes of no confidence two weeks apart, both carried by a simple majority in the Commons, would trigger a general election. Another Tory Remain supporter described the whips’ behaviour as horrible. The whips also feared that a defeat would lead to more letters being sent by the party’s MPs to Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, forcing a leadership vote before parliament went into recess next Tuesday.
Jo Swinson, the Liberal Democrat MP who is on maternity leave, accused the government of betraying a promise that she would be “paired” with a Tory MP — where neither member votes — to ensure that her absence did not count against her. On Twitter she claimed that her pair, Brandon Lewis, had broken the agreement and voted, adding: “Desperate stuff.” Last night Mr Lewis apologised to Ms Swinson on Twitter. “I think it was an honest mistake made by the whips in fast-moving circumstances,” he said. “I know how important the pair is to everyone, especially new parents, and I apologise.” Ms Swinson’s complaints were not echoed by Labour, which also has MPs on maternity leave.
The Commons rejected the customs union amendment by 307-301 after four Labour Brexiteers — plus one sitting as an independent — backed the government. The latest amendment was tabled by Mr Hammond. It stated that if a free trade area had not been negotiated by January 21 ministers must change tack and start discussions on joining a customs union. Labour backs the idea of a customs union with the European Union after Brexit, but the government says that this would leave Britain unable to strike its own international trade deals.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
By all accounts Boris Johnson will make a resignation speech in the Commons after PMQ which loosely translates as a leadership bid.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,227
Great rumour going around that he is going to be man marked by Tory loyalists so that they can be seen in the background furiously disagreeing with everything he says.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940