howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Nothing to do with Project Fear Peter it was the Irish Tea Shop, real name Lenny Verucca who spread that stuff to fuel his career further.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Oh dear, I find myself uncomfortably closer to Mr Redwood than I do to post 2177. Whilst the risks and stakes are high in a "no deal" March 2019 scenario (including, as a knock-on, to April 2019 Easter tourist traffic), I do believe that trade from the EU is do-able given a healthy dose of UK realism. If it proves otherwise, then I think we have Westminster, Whitehall and the press to blame. We need the first two to ask transport practitioners what is possible on individual routes and the third to understand that 'taking back control of our borders' means deciding what controls we need and where - rather than this crazy island mentality of controls AT the border. We start from a position of EU produce and products being regulatorily aligned with us - what isn't going to jump off the lorry and kill us can be inspected on a risk-assessed basis inland, as it is now.
Instead I read some of today's sensationalist headlines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-44919563 and reach for the gin.
We need to avoid modal shift to unaccompanied traffic, to accept that chilled/refrigerated food is not perishable, to adopt route-specific procedures, to put our nation before ideology, personal advancement or selling papers, and to acknowledge that there will be civil unrest (again) surrounding outbound traffic. In the jargon, inbound processes should be based on CT, FLIC, CFSP and VAT PAS pending any elegant 'Chequers' methodology.
Pragmatism in the immediate term, idealism in the longer term. Cheers!
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
(Not my real name.)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
deal or no deal, we are all being stitched up like a rotten kipper.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
As I and many others have said the UK should have just walked way from the EU last year without paying a penny, we owe them nothing we are one of the very few that paid our sups/on time each year, there are many that owe that have taken millions out of the pot and put back nothing in return,on top of all that The UK and U.S.A. lost millions in both life,s and money in the two world wars and we rebuild parts of the Eu after. We owe nothing to the EU the UK voted to walk away from them two years ago and that is what we should do.,yes we can trade with each other as we used to do before we joined up ,and we buy more from them then they do from us.And if they do not wish to do that then they need not do it,but that works both ways. The UK have had many hard times and still here we can do it again. We need a very strong leader who will carry it out ,and he or she will find they have the support of most of the public.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I se that the Foreign Secretary is in Berlin trying to negotiate a good deal for the UK, hopefully he will do better than Neville Chamberlain.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Yes, well, contemplating what we should've done back in 2017 is beside the point in my view and 'walking away' in 2018 lacks the detail that Dover port and Cheriton need. We can debate for ages whether the sacrifices of many families (mine included) from many nations had anything to do with what morphed into the EU and/or were worth it. Frankly I don't give a damn who voted, how they voted or why; we are where we are and Brexit happens at 23:00hrs our time on Friday 29 March 2019.
Assuming I've read the ferry timetables correctly, DFDS will be arriving from Dunkerque with (what shall we say?) 200 trucks right about then, from Calais with another 200 at 23:35 and P&O will chip-in another 200 at 00:05. And so on. So my point is, in a no-deal scenario, what should the port do with 600 trucks for which there is no room?
(The outbound problems may not kick-in until a couple of hours later, once the assembly parks and Buffer Zone are full.)
To be honest, 'what should...' isn't really my point either - I mis-spoke, as global leaders say. My real point is that the port has little option but to do the only thing it can do and what it does now: let the 600 trucks go up the road and leave it to government to devise a procedure around that inevitability.
ray hutstone and Brian Dixon like this
(Not my real name.)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
before we entered the EU we had lots of jobs in Dover ,people processing trucks and all run very smoothly,, and no computers or numberplate recognition cameras to speed up the processing?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,655
After Brexit with all the doom and gloom predictions about the trade we will or might loose, are the pundits absolutely sure there will be all these pesky lorries blocking our roads and port.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Before we entered the EU we didn't have just in time deliveries and supermarkets bulging to the seams with fresh bargains. We also lost our motor manufacturing industry until Nissan and Tata rescued us because they know they could ships goods in and out of Europe seamlessly.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
To answer Mr Bibby, yes we did, although it was always a knife-edge even after the various computerisations (and I came within a whisker of filling the port with trucks myself); you will recall outbound lorries queuing through the town and on Lydden Hill. The main points though are that traffic volumes then were less than half what they are now and what is now ED8 and 9 outbound assembly areas was an import freight compound - so to answer Jan: oh yes, without any doubt! By about midday on the Saturday, I reckon.
Brian Dixon and howard mcsweeney1 like this
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We can't compare different times, interesting points in the above two posts and I have to add that a lot of traffic in the 60s and 70s went by the ponderous train ferry method. Large businesses in those days had enormous storage facilities and when TIR started to take over they opted to cut out those and work with a just in time mindset. Since the early 90s this has worked a treat but however much new technology helps matters unless there is a proper trade deal customs entries and other paperwork will still have to be completed before a truck can pass and many exporters/importers across the EU and here will not have a clue how to do it. Forget the March deadline the October one is what really matters. There is effectively a month to sort things out.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
talking to a lorry driver friend the other day, if lorrys have to be custom checked on a t form it will add an extra 4 days to travel to germany and back.
button town will be backed up by 0800 Friday morning.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
You could win either way, Mr Dixon. If the outbound queues are slow-moving you can open a barbershop and offer a shaving service or, if wurst comes to wurst and they are fast-moving, you can have a hot-dog stand.
Oops, how very gender-casting of me; I meant of course 'shaving or shampoo and set'.
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,225
So, the PM takes direct control and Raab ( and DEXEU) formally report to the Cabinet Office. Interesting move, and probably no accident it was announced on the final sitting day of Parliament. I think this was probably always going to happen, but Raab probably sealed it with his ridiculous comments about not making good on our pre agreed financial responsibilities (labeled the divorce bill by the right wing press, of course).
My instinct is that a no deal, under this PM at least, has just diminished considerably.
ray hutstone likes this
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
You're right. I doubt that it will cut much mustard on this forum though where the majority seems to think that the world owes us a living.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Back in post 2093 I expressed concern over the latest proposal from our fantasist PM which gave no protection to our service sector which is much more important to the country than the manufacturing side.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-ex-pat-pensions-illegal-retired-eu-europe-theresa-may-a8461166.htmlButton- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
I hope you're right Mr Moors. Funny old life; now the Max Fac option was pretty much traditional customs clearance, enhanced somewhat (wow - almost said 'polished'! Phew, one has to be so careful nowadays). The 'Chequers' variant on the other hand is also customs clearance, but not as we know it Jim; in fact, it appears to require nothing whatsoever at EU/UK border crossings like Dover.
So DHB, Eurotunnel and friends are left facing a) "not a Scoobie" for 'no deal' and b) "go back to sleep" for a deal that is transition period and/or Chequers. You can't prepare for the first and you don't have to prepare for the second, so on tomorrow's agenda is - well, nothing actually.
High stakes indeed!
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I understand what you're saying, Button, but I can't help feeling that you're making a simple situation more complex. If we choose to leave the single market then we have to accept the consequences.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
under the T customs form, you have to spend 4 hours at dover, 4 hours at calias, then 4 hours at every border you have to cross.