Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
17 November 2010
10:2380427Vic.
Having worked in the mines and the channel tunnel and others, I know the importance of tickets; I have a ticket that allowed me to cycle from England to France in the service tunnel. Not all of what you are saying is true though. Getting a forklift ticket at one firm does not mean you can drive a forklift anywhere else, George Hammonds for instance and that stops people using them, but that is not my point. I never paid for any of my tickets, in fact i got paid to take them, where is my son going to come up with the sort of money these tickets cost?
There is a solution, he rags it all in, goes on the dole for 6 months to a year and then he might get sent on a forklift course, for free, how barmy is that?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
17 November 2010
10:4080431No arguments here - it is crazy.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
17 November 2010
11:0580439Maybe he will have to go down that road in the end, I do hope not though, maybe Barry will give him a job
.
As Bern says, it is crazy.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 November 2010
11:4580455i have done one of those goverment forklift cources.you are a bit tied up,you go and do your training at dartford or where ever they send you.you get a provisual liecence and you have to find a full time job to get a full one.its a bit of a con really.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
17 November 2010
17:1280510Gary, Gov. has proclaimed recently that a new campaign will be started soon to help unemployed British people find work, and will include tailor-made help to suit individual needs, something that goes beyond what is already offered. Iain Duncan Smith has said openly that the jobs should go to unemployed British people, and that it's the fault of the unemployed that 70 per dcent of jobs go to immigrants. I read this on a Gob. website the other night, so it's official, wording and all!
Help is on the way! Well done Gov!
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
17 November 2010
19:1880532Alexander D.
What a wonderful outlook you have, please don't lose that positive view when things don't turn out the way you think. IDS tells no lies, if it's on GOB it has to be true and the unemployed are the cause of unemployment, erm.
So I take it then that the new idea is to sack all the immigrants and replace them with our unemployed? Couple of flaws with that one springs to mind.
Easy to sack all immigrants, close down all Agencies.
Then get the employers to pay the same amount they paid the agencies direct to the employees which would put more money in their pockets, i like that one but would never work because the employers would never agree.
Then all the immigrants would go on the dole and thereby we have done the full circle and no one is be better off.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
17 November 2010
22:3880607Gary, alright, Gob was a printing error, it is Gov. The information came from an official Government website. Gov's idea is not to sack the immigrants, but to encourage unemployed British people to find work. The information I siefted through is from Iain Duncan Smith, who said that it is because of the unemployed British people that 70 per cent of jobs in Britain go to immigrants.
The wording from high is that many unemployed people must find work, so I didn't write that Gov. said the immigrants should be sacked.
The technical details which you rightly point out as to what would happen if...are a different question, that Gov. didn't mention in this context. Gov's promises are rather vague at the moment, but it has to do with making people on a minimum salary earn more, in some way or another, still not specified from high, and helping in some more specific manner the unemployed British people to get off benefits and into work.
What I was writing, therefore, in connection with your wishes, that your son find work, is that there is something moving in Parliament to help unemployed people here in Britain find work, something more than hitherto. What Gov. decides should go to work-agencies, or not go to them, is a different matter. But i did not write that Gov. said that all immigrants should be sacked, if I had, I would be liable to getting myself into trouble!
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
18 November 2010
10:3480664Alexander D.
I have to show my ignorance here and say that I thought GOB was a real web site, sorry, I was not taking the Mickey.
Much of what you say that needs doing, I agree with and many of those that are unemployed would agree with as well, I think.
But where are these jobs that IDS say unemployed must find?
Closing agencies will instantly create jobs. Pfizer's, Dover Cruise Terminal, Box Factory, Tilmanstone salads, even the ferries I believe use agency staff and many more in our area.
One of my sons works self employed on the railways, working for a sub contractor who works for a sub contractor who works for Rail Track, He earns £16 per hour, so what is the 1st and 2nd sub contractor earning for doing nothing more than passing a job on. He travels as far as Norfolk, Wales and Portsmouth and people from those areas work around here, work that out? He often gets to jobs many miles away, only to be told to go home, because mistakes have been made, mainly with communication from one sub to another and the whole team gets paid, great stuff for them, not so well for the tax payer.
Nurse's having to work alongside agency staff, on three times more pay and having to pay £6 parking for the privilege.
Take the greed out and put some commonsense back in and we will start getting somewhere.
And yes BarryW, the last Government did nothing to help resolve these issues; sadly I do not believe we stand any chance of this lot making any difference either.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
10:4780666Employers need flexibility with staffing to survive difficult times Gary. My own son is working for an agency.
Without that flexibility to adapt to work flows many businesses would simply go bust and you will get more unemployment.
18 November 2010
10:5480667Some challenges even around that, though. Agency/temps are to have employment rights after 12 weeks in a job. If employers are to avoid accruing workers with rights (and all the NI and leave pay etc etc etc ) it will mean using people for 11 weeks and laying them off for several more, and we know that will happen as a means of avoidance. That won't benefit anyone, least of all the workers.
18 November 2010
11:5680670howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 November 2010
12:5880675who would employ a plumber or electrician who is a foreign national?
i employ by word of mouth or looking in the yellow pages and checking that they have an address, landline telephone number and registered with their trade association.
employing cowboys with just a mobile number is asking for trouble.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
18 November 2010
16:4880695BarryW.
The pro answer for agencies, is always flexibility, why cant some be honest and admit it is purely for profit?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
18 November 2010
16:5380696Profit per se is not a bad thing. It is how organisations use their profits and the accountability that matters. And flexibility is a genuine factor, I know!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 November 2010
17:1180697Gary, in reply to your question, where the jobs are that IDS says unemployed must find, you could go on to yahoo and type: unemployment in Britain. On the first page, the first or second result, there is an article, with the title: Unemployment in Britain. It explains how many vacancies have been free in a three month period this year, and how many people are officially considered unemployed in Britain.
Statistics have been used to supply some of the information.
It does not take into account that official unemployment rate does not include hidden unemployment, but the article might help understand that the number of vacancies and number of unemployed are two complete different set of figures.
I suppose it would be informative for IDS to read this article, as you are totally right, the vacancies for all the officially unemployed are not there, not to mention the hidden unemployment figure, which is much higher!
I am the author of the article, and it got fromt page on Yahoo and Google (on Google it's the ninth result).
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
17:1180698GaryC for firms to 'staff up' to cover peak times and then have them idle in 'down times' is a sure way not to reduce profit but to bankruptsy.
Likewise the other way round with firms unable to meet delivery times.
Companies need flexibility and, yes, profit is a good thing. We all need it, for the jobs and tax revenue that arise from it.
Howard- I agree with you on that.
I am fortunate as I have clients and business contacts who can deliver virtually every service and trade I need, people I know and trust to do a good job. I am far better than Yellow Pages!!
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
19 November 2010
10:3480764Please, I am not stupid. The world would not turn, without profit or bosses or financial backers, I know and totally accept that. But it also would not turn without workers either and I am sick and tired of you lot blaming them for their demise. For sure, some are at fault but not the majority. Just as some firms are genuine and care about their employees and many are just greedy. I have said it before and I will say it again, Back in the seventies the unions were far too strong and needed reigning in. Not in the totally destructive and barbaric way that Thatcher did it but in a more civilised way. Today we have the opposite; the greedy rich are too strong. Again we need balance in this country and I am afraid that people have long memories and after xmas the increase in VAT will be the last straw for many.
I noticed there was no comment on my railway piece, I suspect you would call the two middle firms raking off money both from the tax payer and its workers, shrewd business? I call that type of profit, greed.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 November 2010
11:1680765You and I have totally different outlook on life, GaryC.
I really do not know who on earth I am meant to be blaming or what I am meant to be blaming them for. In fact I dont really see where blame comes into this.
Its a good job you are not running a business GaryC because I dont think you would last long.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
19 November 2010
15:4580787Barryw
I would have more faith in Garyc surviving as a company than yourself as garyc doesnt look at things through rose tinted glasses.
Garyc
we do understand you, and where your comng from, please dont get frustrated at what an individual posts on here, i love to hear from your unbiased, balanced viewpoints, we may not always agree, but you do stand your corner, looking at things in a logical manner
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
19 November 2010
15:5180790gary makes a good point about how we never seem to get the balance right, it is either the unions or big business bullying their way through.
on my first day at work a bloke slammed a wad of papers on my desk and demanded 10 bob, when i asked why, he told me that i had no choice but to join the union.
needless to say after i left the company i never went near a unionised firm again.