Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
08:0571402#1
This needs a thread of it`s own, and I shall now state why I haven`t commented too much on Rick`s thread, and why I have a great dislike for the Vatican and it`s teaching`s, which is why I avoided getting caught up in other posting`s on there. I mentioned about poor old Bruno being burnt alive at the stake in Rome in 1600 for preaching the existence of other world`s and other being`s on them, and correctly teaching that the stars in the skies are other suns, and our sun is at the centre of the solar system, NOT the Earth. This is what the Polish astronomer Copernicus had worked out mathematically 200 years earlier! He too was scared to publish his finding`s till he was on his death bed, for fear of a religious backlash. Back to the Vatican, and after Bruno was burnt alive at the stake in Rome, thirty years later, the famous astronomer Galileo, inventor of the first proper telescope and discoverer of the moons around Jupiter, was put under house arrest for the rest of his life, not being burned alive because he was forced by the inquisition to recant the truth of what he`d discovered. Now, the two faced piece, and my hate for the Vatican, and religion in general.....................
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
08:2771404#2
Today, a brother Guy Consolmagno from the Vatican, one of their astronomer`s is doing a lecture at the British Science Festival up at Aston, Birmingham about alien`s being Gods children. What he states is, that any aliens that were discovered, would be God`s children, and would be baptised if they asked. WHAT??? Are they now putting the other face on which poor Bruno wasn`t around to see? If ever there was such a two faced establishment here it is. And in case you`re wondering why they`re doing this lecture I`ll tell you. It`s exactly as I`ve said on here about the Jehova`s witnesses. They`re using modern scientific discoveries in astronomy for their own ends. This brother whatever above COULD NOT have done this lecture without proper astronomer`s doing all the hard work on discoving other planet`s beyond the one`s we already know about in our own solar system. These astronomer`s at the vatican have just sat back and had the hard work, including the mathematic`s done for them. So, alien`s, what are your view`s if an intelligent life form were found to exist outside of our planetary system?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
08:3171405#3
Regardless of the pope being over here, I would have torn into this news item anyway, so I`m not doing this thread for the popes visit. Is it a coincidence that this brother turns up at the same time? I`ve avoided religion on here lately, and tried to steer clear of it, and I think I`ve done a good job, but it`s this sort of thing that really makes my blood boil. This isn`t a religious bashing thread, it`s about my main interest in life, and hopefully a quiet discussion will ensue.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
18 September 2010
08:3271406#4
I have noticed before, on other threads, that people get very steamed up about Britain having to keep apologising for things like their involvement in the slave trade, and oppression of aboriginals. I am unclear why any group has to continue apologising for things that happened before they were even thought of, never mind born. There are some clear exceptions: nazism for example, has always stood for a collection of oppressive and violent drivers and has never apologised for that, rather has celebrated it. That is different. There is no doubt that many religions (not faiths, and there is a difference) have harboured unpleasant characters and events, people who have sought refuge and validation in a group. That is not representative of all in the group, and intelligent thinking around it would soon expose that.
I wonder how it would seem if I said I hate all white men because I suffered abuse at the hands of one. Or because they conquered huge tracts of the world and did it by violence and coercion. Or because they held the most money and power. or because they smelled, or spat, or whatever.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 September 2010
08:4371410#5
Blimey Colin
All that you have related to,so eloquently,dates back to the 1600's...you can certainly hold a grudge..lol
As for the centre of the Universe..well obviously I agree with science but by the same token if man was not here then there would be no-one or thing to recognise that the sun was the centre of our universe.So in a way man is the centre as he is the only known species that can recognise discover and witness these scientific events.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
18 September 2010
08:4571411#6
Colin, we are almost at the vernal equinox and you will be able to see Uranus, with binoculars! Imagine Copernicus telling the Pope that in his day!!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
08:5171413#7
Thanks Bern. I mention Bruno purely because the Vatican apologised for him in 1992, (as you say it`s no good apologising later), but not Bruno. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that Stephen Hawking had paid a couple of visit`s over there? But anyway, the thread is about how much religious establishment`s keep changing things about to keep up with new scientific discoveries. Why did the then pope tell Stephen Hawking back in 1981 that it`s alright to study the evolution of the universe, but NOT the big bang, as that was the moment of creation and the work of God. Here we have the modern day equivalent of Bruno`s day`s, 400 years ago. YOU mustn`t do this as this is the work of God, so mustn`t be questioned. WHY??? Religion has held up scientific progress for centuries, if there`s an intelligent life out there which has grown up without religion, then they should have evolved their minds much more quickly thanwhat we have.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
18 September 2010
08:5171414#8
Sorry - I replied to Sid and got in a muddle. Blimey - it's only 9am and I'm already in a flap!
18 September 2010
08:5971417#9
Colin, think about it mate. The church/mosque/temple doesn't want to admit the existence of intelligent life. And for good reason. Anyone intelligent would see through the sham of what these institutions are trying to do and if they were exposed for what they are, it would be their end.
Sadly it seems, believing in an ethereal being drags one into abiding by some other human's rules for worship etc.
In my view, if you are a true believer, you don't need someone else to tell you how and when to worship. I'd be much happier if our religious establishments confined themselves to teaching, rather than preaching. But then others claim to need a 'higher' person to tell them how to be a good follower of whatever god they are following.
Big subject this.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
09:0171419#10
That`s right Marek, and if we weren`t here, the universe would still be here as it is. Such beauty out there through the telescope, and of course here on Earth, but why do we have to invent somebody to be responsible for it all? In ancient times, yes, they didn`t have anything else to explain it, but now in the 21st century, here we are and some haven`t progressed beyond those ancient idea`s. Let me add that I`d love to believe in a god up there, and it must be reassuring for those who believe so, and I have no problem`s with that. But why do these religious concerns, not just the Vatican but other`s, have to keep twisting newly discovered and important scientific discoveries about for their own ends? I`m afraid that news item this morning on here must have unlocked something deep rooted in me.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
18 September 2010
09:0371421#11
God, for me, isn't "up there", but is "in here". We don't need to look far to find our spiritual bedrock, but it's a matter of knowing where to start. Faith and religion can sometimes offer some signposts.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
09:0371422#12
Bern, I was in one at 7 this morning after reading the news item on yahoo. I was going to mention some items above on Rick`s thread, but this isn`t concerned with the pope`s visit.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 September 2010
09:0971425#13
My old Irish grandad Murphy used to say there weren't any non-believers in the trenches of WW1....the prayers before they went ' over the top' were being belted outl by all the soldiers.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 September 2010
09:2971430#14
religion seems to be getting the blame for all the bad things that have happened in the world.
we seem to forget the non religious atrocities, hitler and his chums, pol pot, the tribal massacres in africa etc.
seems strange to bring up the inquisition, that all happened months ago.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
18 September 2010
10:1971441#15
#9. Good reply Sid, and there`s my anger again, but this time at those empty headed christian`s in the U.S. sucking million`s of dollar`s into their bank account`s and building new church`s in the process. Nothing wrong with that maybe, but PREACHING to their flocks that the Earth is only ten thousand year`s old, and we lived among the dinosaur`s!!!!!!!!!! Frightning stuff, I think i`ll go with the Vatican on this one. ....Sorry Howard, couldn`t make out what your last sentance was about mate.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
18 September 2010
12:4871452#16
Science flies rockets to the Moon.
Religion flies airplanes into buildings.
Science forces us to question everything.
Religion demands that we question nothing.
What has always made me laugh is the way that religion "revises and updates" itself based on scientific progress. Classic example is the revision of the creationist story of Adam and Eve. While religion still denies the rock solid evidence of evolution, they have at least revised the creationist theory into something we now call "intelligent design" which does address Darwin's proposal to a limited degree. I think this came to a point where the religious theory was starting to look ludicrous so the established church had no choice but to rethink it a little.
As for aliens, well, I have always heard that one of the reasons for the massive "cover-up" surrounding this subject was because the evidence of E.T. would cause the collapse of society as we know it. Our political systems would fail because we'd be a lower class of being overshadowed by a superior race, and our religious institutions would be canceled out because we would no longer be special or divine in the universe. But, my thinking is that the reality would be different. If intelligent aliens were proven to be real we'd get the following:
1. Skeptics who would always refuse to believe in them.
2. New religions who worship them.
3. Traditional religions who would revise and update their policy on them.
4. Liberal political groups who would want to befriend them.
5. Conservative political groups who would be suspicious of them.
6. Socialist political groups who would be threatened by them.
7. Scientists who would want to share and to learn from them.
8. Right wing militaristic groups who would want to destroy them (possibly with religious motives).
9. Athiests who would be amazed or scared by them.
10. Nutters who will tell us all "told you so".
There's a new alien invasion movie coming soon which I'm looking forward to called Monsters which is looking real good. However, I reckon that a side-effect of a REAL alien invasion would be that we'd have it for real so all the sci-fi movies would no longer be needed. Can't have that!!!
18 September 2010
13:0871453#17
Great post Rick. Proof of most of what you give us there is to be found in the all-time classic Sci-Fi movie:
MARS ATTACKS
Yeah, I know what everyone is thinking, but look behind the fun stuff, there is a very serious message to this film.
18 September 2010
13:4571455#18
Silly me - I thought it was people flying those planes into those buildings............
18 September 2010
13:5571458#19
Motivated by religious indoctrination Bern. They didn't get up in the morning and think, "what a wheeze it would be to fly an airliner into the twin towers and murder 5000 people".
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
18 September 2010
14:3071459#20
Marek, there was also a quote that says, 'every dead Christian in foxholes prayed'.
Colin does have a point in that, while society adapts to changing knowledge and circumstances, religion claims to hold the unchangable truth from its beginnings. If they do not hold the absolute truth and are subject to change in the details where does that stop; can they alter the basis of their gods as new knowledge becomes known?
(Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?" )
Annie Dillard
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour