Unregistered User
22 October 2010
20:1876136#21
Vic, you can't stop it.
The decisions have already been taken.
What this is about is how it happens and is giving local people a say in that process.
They have the opportunity to be part of planning the shape, facilities and location of these developments.
Both the Whitfield PC and the Action Committee have been engaged with the developers for months shaping this process.
What is being consulted on is part of that work.
It ranges from schools, public transport, green space, community facilities, medical provision , access etc.
I congratulate the local groups for fighting for the best deal for their communities and moving on.
Watty
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
22 October 2010
21:0576147#22
I have no more to say about it,I said all I had to say at the meeting with the DDC there in the parish hall .
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
22 October 2010
23:2076179#23
If I am not mistaken, the residents of Whitfield overwhelmingly said No! to the developement plans for thousands of houses there. And that this came in the context of democracy-seeking on the part of the Council. Now it is: you can't do anything about it!
I also recall reading that many people in the Canterbury area also said No! to similar plans there to develope the area up. I wonder if for them it is also: you can't do anything about it?
Honestly, Paul, I can't see why people living in Kent cannot have access to employment and must be left out in favour of others who you say should come here and work!
But one more word, in May there will be Council elections, and these will be preceded by campaigns for the election of people standing for the wards. There will be quite some campaigning though!
Informing the people that the Council is more interested in other people to come here, for example, when they should be representing the people who live here, and listening to them!
In fact, after reading this last post, I have decided not to turn up tomorrow to ask or answer questions in front of the Council, you made a point there, Paul!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
22 October 2010
23:2976180#24
Alex you have clearly misread Paul's posts
Whilst I often disagree with him his point is that surely it is better to create housing here to try to encourage those who currently live elsewhere but work here to come and live here. Once they live here they will want to spend some of their money here therefore creating retail opportunities, that create more jobs etc. These new jobs then being available for locals etc.
In the current economic and funding climate local authorities are not in the position to create jobs, all they can do is the best they can to create the conditions that will encourage the private sector to create jobs.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
22 October 2010
23:4976182#25
Ross, I fully understood Paul's words, and my post remains the same! I know the situation here in Dover and surrounding area, I know Dover from when I went to school here, and how our town and area is developping, and who the people are who are supposed to come here and work. I also know what democratic will is, and also: that there are so many shops and supermarkets here, that the extra shop selling newspapers and chocolates won't create more jobs, just absorb the pennies of any extra settlers, meaning that the shops already around won't gain an extra penny!
Also, the pounds going into retailers' accounts don't go to the people of Dover, but to those who run the shops.
I am very much aware of what goes on around me, and, as I stated, paul can expect an adventurous campaign for May coming! All within democracy!
If we had a natural increase in the population, all that about developing houses might make sense, but we haven't!
One more word here: Charlie Elphicke's blog is well-known to me, and he states just about the same as Vic and I do concerning building new housing estates for settlers! May-be you should read Charlie's blog, Ross. He doesn't want these new estates! He's our MP, and got elected by a consistant majority.
Paul can expect a hot campaign! Come what May!
Unregistered User
23 October 2010
08:4976197#26
Alexander, that is your perogative. Democracy should play its part and I fully expect this issue to play a part in the May elections. I get elected to make decisions, some are hard but necessary.
If DDC don't take this type of decision with the evidence presented to us then we would be guilty of many of the comments so frequently made on this Forum.
If Dover's population does not expand and become more affluent then all the aspirations voiced here will not take place. ASDA will just be tip of the iceberg.
In the mean time to bury you head in the sand when the decisions have already been taken confirmed by the planning inspectorate and endorsed by government will only spell out missed opportunities to shape the future of your community.
You may well want to punish us in the ballot box but that detracts from the fact that currently you are being asked about what you want your community to look like post these decisions.
Ignore it and someone else will decide. It is called moving on.
The Whitfield PC and the Action Group have and are getting results.
Watty
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
23 October 2010
09:0176199#27
Whilst I fully expect all sitting councillors to be heartily challenged come May I would not expect this to be over something which was decided by the HM Government Planning Inspectorate.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
23 October 2010
13:0776219#28
Paul, the subject will be for the coming Council elections. I know the last government made a developement plan to build new housing estates all over England for settlers, and that Charlie Elphicke Tory MP in his official blog is totally against this developement plan and has noted that the British population does not have a natural increase. I know Charlie's blog, and am also convinced that Whitfield community said overwhelmingly No! to the last government's and to Dover District Council's mass immigration policy into Dover.
Expect a hot election campaign!
I think our views on the Forum are spelled out. No more to say on the subject!
Unregistered User
23 October 2010
14:0876225#29
No thing to do with immigration. If you want to bring it down to that level, then it is a pretty pathetic campaign and you demean yourself.
Watty
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
23 October 2010
15:0476235#30
Again Mr Watkins has said some very good points,about making some very hard Decisions after the locals next year if he gets in,I think he will get in and at this time i think he is the best man to be there,there is one big decision he can make now which would help him and Dover look very hard at his Planning office and some of the staff runing it ,can he say they are the best there is,I do not think so some need to go.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
23 October 2010
18:5476259#31
The fear is that the shops will be sited in Whitfield too and Dover will benefit relatively ittle. Meanwhile a rival, more prosperous new town will stadily supoersede Dover as it becomes a ghetto of the underprivileged.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
23 October 2010
19:3676265#32
that is my concern, with tescos already there and a growing community, other retailers and recreation providers will be tempted to move into whitfield.
i do not envy paulw or gordon, they have a difficult balancing act to get things right.
one thing is for sure the fuhrer is right about expanding the local population as the only way forward.
Unregistered User
23 October 2010
19:5976277#33
Don't think so Andrew.
We are not planning this to put retail at Whitfield, the point about extra population is to bring vitality to the Town Centre and Maritime area.
The new public transport system will join up Whitfield, Connaught , St. James ,Dover Priory , Town Centre and back thru.Dover to Whitfield.
Watch for new applications in Dover's brown field site areas and the types of housing.
As you will haved noted Singledge ancient woodland is preserved and made a feature. That was one of your points.
I have to say mixed messages come up on these developments. No affordable/little at Whitfield, all immigrants , new ghettoes to Dover becoming ghettoized.
The investor interest and activity is exceptional. People spending money preparing plans, wanting to go.
Watty
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
23 October 2010
20:1676286#34
Whilst I do not necessarily share Andrews fears and welcome your response Paul; there are some big buts there, particularly around transport links between not only Whitfield and the Town Centre/Sea Front/Station but also the outlying villages. Whilst this is a 20 year proposal and a lot can change in that time, it will be difficult to get the transport companies to commit to links before there are any houses there.
It is very positive that Singledge Wood has been protected, what protections are you putting in place to prevent future urban sprawl and also to prevent anything other than small local community shops (post office, newsagent, convenience store)?
Which partners are you using for the "affordable housing" and any social housing that might go onto the development?
With regard to brown field applications, if you do not want Andrew's fear to be realised you need to find ways to prevent too much social housing being put on these sites.
Also what account has been made in your plans to accommodate additional students at primary, secondary and tertiary level within the town and district if you are adding 7-8,000 houses across the town and its surrounding area, this is potentially an increase of many thousands of students across all levels of the education system.
Finally, whilst I see there is a proposal to build a doctors surgery etc. up there, what does adding potentially another 20,000 people to the population of the town do for the arguments for a hospital of some kind within Dover?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
23 October 2010
22:2776307#35
Dear Mr. Watkins.
When I state immigration into Dover and surrounding area, I mean people setling here whether they come from London ot Timbuctwo! What you yourself are stating is a proposed mass immigration into Dover, and it is so even if the setlers came from London!
Are you telling me that at the coming Council election campaign I will be ridiculing myself by noting this proclaimed policy to the people?
Ross made some good points there concerning extra schooling, and the hospital. Have you calculated this in the development plans?
Also, as I mentioned earlier, Charlie Elphicke has proclaimed in no uncertain terms that he is against these sort of housing developments, as we in Britain do not have a natural birth increase.
May-be it's worth mentioning too that Gov. has recently cancelled a series of plans to construct military equipment that the previous government had planned to produce, so it is not out of the question that Gov. might also cancel this unwanted development scheme of new cities in rural England!
Sorry, Paul, but the election campaign will be fair and open on my part, also in regards to the strange ideas that extra little news-agent shops in Dover run by people coming from London will create new jobs among Dovorians and somehow increase everyone's personal wealth. Sorry, but I have my own notions on economic recovery, which implies training local people for factory and farm work and supplying the basis for the creation of new small production sites. If everyone opened a shop and stood there staring out of the window, we'd all go bankrupt. #As I wrote previously, it will be for the election campaign, I have made my points clear here, but I had to let you know that I am not preparing a pathetic campaign or demeaning myself!
Unregistered User
24 October 2010
08:4876348#36
Alexander you have obviously not studied the proposals as schools [3 primaries] medical centre, localshops, community centre, etc are all identified within the process. Road links , relationships to A2 , A256 and proposals for the Bus Rapid Transit system are also included and currently being worked up by the County Council. Local hospital stands outside these proposals and continues as a seperate matter as no doubt you will have seen in the local papers. The new numbers would not alter the status of the current hospital/polyclinic proposals or timescale for build.
As for the inflow of residents from other areas, frankly that is part of the point of the exercise, how do you think the existing Whitfield population was established.
Training local people in maritime , construction skills and other employment potential forms part of a another approach currently being dealt with. I will be meeting a Minister with the MP this week having those very discussions for a local brown field site within the District.
Watty
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
24 October 2010
13:1476367#37
Paul, once again, it's up to Dover's communities to decide whether we want mass immigration into our area, from wherever, London included. It's a case of democracy, not the former government and the Cuncil deciding to give us up and dedicate all efforts to a new population of people who do not live here! You don't represent this hypothetic new population and should be working for us local people, which is what you were presumably elected for in the first place.
My dad served 22 years in the Army, for Freedom and Democracy, not for the oppossite.
I can't see any democratic will being represented in your mass immigration policy.
You do not seem to bring up on this thread what democratic basis you have for your plans here, nor ever comment on Charlie's election campaign against the development of new residential areas when we have no natural birth increase. Charlie got elected, and I assume that the majority of people in the Dover-Deal constituency knew his basic views also concerning housing development when we do not need it. What you are trying to force through is the opposite!
I believe in democracy, Paul, not in 1984.
Unregistered User
24 October 2010
14:0276376#38
Democracy has been applied.
Whilst you might like it. DDC Councillors have been elected to make these decisions and voted unaniminously for growth.[All political parties, even your councillors].
Because it does not suit you does not mean that the democratic process has not been applied.
You vote for people to make decisions , we have applied that principle.
Charlie Elphicke was elected to parliament after these decisions were taken.
This is a local authority decision not an MP's decision.
For the record the majority of those responding to consultations voted for growth and sooner rather than later.
Even Whitfield recognised the need for growth whilst resisting it in their area.
That's why you elect local councillors-to take decisions. They took them.
Even Keith voted for growth, it was in his time.
Your view of democracy is one sided.
Watty
24 October 2010
14:2676380#39
Ha!! Good points well made! One of the reasons I resist a plethora of referendums (referenda?) is because the Public (bless......) decide, when voting for reps, that the decisions taken will be made by and large by the people getting the votes. That's the point. There are very few things that need to be taken back to the populus ad nauseum.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
24 October 2010
14:5776388#40
I thnk Paulw as ou have decided to bring me into this, I do support growth, but like Roger have a lot of reservations about how this is done and where
'Iv not had any contact with people like the parish council in Whiitfield so cant comment if there on board or not.
I hope it all works out in everyones interest
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS