howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 December 2010
23:4284026sorry to see a serious issue turn into a yah boo sucks thread.
perhaps instead of taking up a position where it is a case of the good and the bad having a "punch up" we should think of the innocents that have suffered?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
10 December 2010
23:4684028Keith my views on the miners is that they were lions led by donkeys.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
10 December 2010
23:5084030Who are the innocents then Howard, the students causing mayhem or the police trying to stop them.
If you mean the student who was reportedly hit by a truncheon he was obviously in the midst of the trouble, I am not making a judgement until ALL the facts are known. His tutor on the news said he was a good student but not one to back away, that is if if I heard him correctly.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
11 December 2010
00:4684036Jimmy we have lived in a police state ever since we signed the Maastricht Treaty. It's nothing new. Jan, the innocents were the ones who got the hell out at the first sign of trouble.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
11 December 2010
02:4484039its all just shades of grey
no absolutism
neither side in these fracas is wholly innocent or wholly guilty
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
11 December 2010
09:1284042I have to disagree with you on this one Ross,
.
The wholly guilty are the yobs who started all this trouble be they students or rent a mob and the wholly innocent are the students who were not involved in the trouble as were some of the police.
Anyone else notice that some of the frontline police were not wearing helmets but hats which suggests to me they were not expecting so much violence.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
11 December 2010
09:4084048in reality the police did all they could to sort out the mob rule put yourselves in there position, the majority of students were well behaved and the majority of the police were calm and keeping the march going n peacefully.
the rent a mob(probably never seen a uni in there life) broke away in a deliberate attemp to cause problems so what would you do as a police force? take police away from where the thusands of students were, thus making smaller police numbers and problems that could cause.
We need to sit back now and find out all the facts on what happened with any of those injured whether they be police injured or members of the public, and in each case if police or public have been proved to have caused injury without reason the book should be thrown at them.
We need to look at this in a reasonable manner, without doubt there will be police(a very small number)who go in to heavy and dont have the skills required to overcome issues, but the vast majority of police are happy to see the march pass off peacefully and they then have a good day
also in the student ranks much the same applies but with this like any major demonstration you get the rent a mob, nowt to do with the march, but out to cause
violence, would like posters suggest you step in to a violent situation to try to stop it thus putting yourselves and others in danger? i suggest not you do as peter says get the hell away from it.
And finally peter, i cannot agree with your short comment on the miners and whilst the tactics of scargill may not have been useful, he was correct in his starting point of what the tory govt was about to do(denied by maggie and many others at the time)on pit closures.
theres a whole lot more that went on during that dispute which i could mention but its not related to this thread so i will stop there
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 December 2010
10:3684057read this morning that the chap on top of the cenotaph was a history student at cambridge, he is the son of the gilmour bloke out of pink floyd.
he reckons that he did not know what the monument was.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
11 December 2010
10:4984061Thick, irresponsible, thug and idiot - that should be enough to get him thrown out of Uni and into jail.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
11 December 2010
14:3684066hold your horses barryw, like they say in liverpool "calm down mate"
if this geezer has now explained he wasn't aware of the monument or what it related to, we all make mistakes in life, if he apolgised maybe accept it
deal with it and move on.
once we look at each case as i suggested we might get somewhere
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 December 2010
16:1184085steady barryw you are close to blowing a gasket calm down the truth will come out and the dust will settle.
11 December 2010
16:4584086Just to repeat myself: we need to get a bit of perspective here. Some students over stepped the mark bigstyle, some who did so were not students. Some police overstep the mark sometimes too. That does not make all students bad, or all police bad. Get a grip, people. And a childish comment, BarryW, like "they deserved it" does you no credit at all. Who are you, we or anyone to sit on judgement about an entire group of people because of a few. Never has so much twaddle been talked by so many people about so few. If it was a group of blacks and we used the same approach we would be quite rightly accused of racism. I am disappointed by the lack of real intelligent evaluation of these events on this forum.
11 December 2010
17:3784093Bern, to refer to a "group of blacks" is politically incorrect, shame on you, you should know better!!
SMILEY:
11 December 2010
17:5284094howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 December 2010
18:2884105this colour issue can be a bit of a grey area.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 December 2010
18:3984106just had a thought!!
re;post 48
wasn't it the dad of the bloke swinging from the cenotaph that sang "we don't need no education"?
listening to his son speak one can only wonder how he got to cambridge, must have been his dad's money playing a part.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 December 2010
19:0484109howard,dont knock it,its a damm good tune.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 December 2010
19:1784113an excellent band brian, i think i am correct in saying that ray newsam played lead banjo for them on that album.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 December 2010
19:2284114quite possable howard,ray might confirm this at some point.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
11 December 2010
19:3784123I must apologise to Bern for not meeting her "real intelligent evaluation of these events on this forum."
I thought the posts on here were quite intelligent although there were a few duff ones as per usual.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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