Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 December 2010
10:4883893That is the only way to describe the protesters and thugs who defiled the Cenotaph and the statue of Winston Churchill yesterday. Then, of course, were the deliberate attempts to injure police horses, the destruction of private and public property, the looting and attacks on police officers and members of the public, including the unwarranted and disgraceful attack on the Prince of Wales.
No doubt many people will now associate students with these actions and this will help shore up support for the sensible changes to student fee arrangements.
I have no problem with legitimate and peaceful protest, but where is the condemnation from the student leaders of these actions? You know who I mean, those student leaders who tried to get the government to reduce grants and loans instead of increasing fees....
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 December 2010
10:5283895most of it is done by anarchist hangers on, i doubt many students are involved in the criminal acts.
having said that, i have strong concerns about lecturers giving support to the protests, send the wrong message.
the disgraceful treatment described above should never have taken place, there were thousand of highly trained police in riot gear.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 December 2010
12:2783908to put the boot on the other foot,if you compare the injuries to the police [12] compared to the students [43] it hardly fare to call the sudents scumbags.the police where unwarented in there tactics during these protests,espasaly when kettling the sudents up,thus provocking the scuffels.but saying that those who done damage to churchills styatue and the cenotaph should be punished.
10 December 2010
12:3183911Yet again an attack on the Police. Does it occur to you Barry, that there were probably a lot less Police than student protesters (ratios!)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 December 2010
12:3683912just a ps to my post,if was deemed safe for the prince of wales it beggers a question or two.
where was the protection that he surossed to have,ie outriders etc
and knowing that demos where taking place why wasent he re routed when the breakaway group turned up.
10 December 2010
12:4883914Like most public sector organisations, they didn't talk to each other - that is why there was no re-routing of the monarch-in-waitings car!! Communication is not a strength in the public sector.
Brian - brace yourself, I agree with you. Police have been known to provoke in order to meet their own agenda. And most of the students demonstrating were fine - some were hot-heads and some of the visible ringleaders were not representative of the majority. Calm down, everyone - students and their hormones often behave unpredictably, and have been known to be led astray by others with their own agendas!! And some students will not understand the offence caused by some of the paint-daubing - and that might be our fault for not communicating it enough! We, ahem, older peple sometimes assume that everyone knows what we know, but it isn't the case. I am often given pause for thought by some things my own children ask me about, sometimes in wonderment, when I have assumed - if I thought of it at all - that they knew. Life is a strange patchwork and we often see the colours differently.
Guest 666- Registered: 25 Mar 2008
- Posts: 323
10 December 2010
13:2083919I spent the day yesterday with a group of students in Canterbury helping out with one of their second year projects.
Not a mention was made of fees or any type of action, all was serene and as it should be.....then the stark contrast....stunned to watch the 10.00 o'clock news and see what had been happening elsewhere, Royals in the fray too...
Mortified to see the Christmas tree alight in Trafalgar Sq and Winnies statue daubed as it was in the Poll Tax rioting.
Can only think that a hooligan element has taken over another cause, we are all entitled to peaceful protest.
Oh Boy!, That'll be the day.........
10 December 2010
13:2983920Hidden agendas, BuddyG. It's too easy to brand everyone with the sins of a few. Most students are, like any other cross-section of the public, charming and individual!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 December 2010
14:1283921Diana - I am not sure I understood what you said. it seems to suggest I was attacking the police and you rightly said that there were a lot less of them than protesters.
I fully and without reservation support the police in the job they did.
The attack on the police was Brian, sadly supported by Bern....
Brian - the police were defending law and order. The rioters, whether students or troublemakers, were fully in the wrong and it was their behaviour that led to their injuries and as far as I am concerned they deserve all they got.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
10 December 2010
15:0683925I wholeheartedly agree with BarryW and all others who condemn the violence. I condemn the violence on the police and the violence by the police. The streets are not the place to solve any problem; the table is the only place for negotiation.
Whether people like it or not, the fact is, these students have taken to the streets because they have been let down, big time, by lies and u-turns from this coalition government. Without doubt the good law abiding students, which is the majority, are being used by anarchists with their own agenda and I have no problem with the police dealing with these people as a priority. I fear that far worse occurrences will follow, when VAT is increased in the New Year, I really do hope I am wrong.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 December 2010
15:4983926barryw,i am not condoning the violence just saying that the police did provoke some of the violence.
reports are coming through on sky news pages that a student had to have a 3 hour operation on his head to releave preasure on his brain after being hit by a police baten.so barryw have you got a smart comment about that.
oh and by the way he was walking from the area with two adults at the time.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
10 December 2010
15:5083927The violence was completely unexcusable and shows what idiots some people can be as it did nothing to help their cause. Yes there were troublemakers amongst the genuine protesters but they must have obviously condoned the awful damage or they could have stopped it if they really wanted.
As for the claims of police violence in this case what were they supposed to do just stand there get hit and let these yobs do just what they liked. If the students had not behaved as they did they would not have got hurt.
Did anyone see the obnoxious female student leader on Breakfast TV this morning, I think Ms Soloman was her name, no wonder SOME students behaved like they did with a leader like that. An instigator of trouble if I ever saw one in my opinion.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 December 2010
15:5583929jan,if thats the case i hope the copper who hit this lad gets prosecuted for gbh or abh.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 December 2010
16:0183930all criminal behaviour has to dealt with by the courts, whoever perpetrates it, that includes the police.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
10 December 2010
16:3883933Brian, I have not seen the report about the lad you mention, if true and he is innocent the policeman in question should end up in court. I was talking about the disgraceful scenes that were reported on the news yesterday and early this morning. For those events I can think of no possible reason or excuse.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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10 December 2010
16:3983934Can I just make it clear that I entirely condemn the violence we witnessed- I just think people are falling into the reduced-intelligence trap of blaming everyone who was within a square mile of the problems. Most of those kids were cool, and never intended to misbehave, and they have justifiable reasons to exercise their legitimate right to protest. Some behaved badly, and some of those behaving badly were not students. I always support reasonable Police action - for goodness sake, I work for the MoJ at the moment! But like any group - students included - the Police have a few hotheads and rogues. We just need to get some perspective here!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
10 December 2010
17:0883940one is innocent until a court proves otherwise up until that point you at worst can only be a suspect - let us not presume otherwise
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 December 2010
17:1383943jan,itv and the bbc havent picked on it as far as i know,but sky news did.i agree with about the riff raff needing to be prosacuted for there violent acts,the police who act as bad as the thugs allso need prosacuting as well.no offence to you or policeman son was intended.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 December 2010
18:4383956the lad in hospital got a glowing reference from his lecturer, he was described as a very good student and unlikely to ever hurt a fly.
witnesses say that it was an unprovoked attack, we shall have to wait and see.
i would like to see all cameras used yesterday taken away and an independent body set up to view all the incidents and make recommendations to the crown prosecution service.
no cover ups should be allowed.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
10 December 2010
18:5083959BERN/GARYC
With you both on this one.
no one agrees with the violence, and yes peaceful protest is the order of the day.
those causing the violence wont be students they will be the usual rent a mob out to cause problems.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS